Left In Lowell

Well, I promised I’d have this done tonight, and I’ve made it with 40 minutes to spare! (Here is the previous shorter post.)

As an aside, I’ll be on WUML’s (91.5 FM) Thinking Out Loud, Dan Toomey’s 10am morning show. I’ll be talking about blogging, politics, suddenly finding myself in the middle of local and state politics, or whatever, for about 20 minutes near the start of the show (that is, if I don’t freeze up or something! ha!).

After the flip, I’ll post the entire Deval Patrick interview transcript (minus some of my inane chattering) so you can read our conversation for yourself. [Update: Duh, I’ve fogotten a link to Deval Patrick’s campaign site.]

Deval Patrick is nothing if not ambitious. From health care to public education, job creation and public transit, he has a lot of sound ideas on how to reverse some of the negative trends in this state. Make no mistake, it’ll take some doing. He advocates, for instance, smaller class sizes and longer school days (not just classroom, but other school-related activities). He wants to move towards universal health care coverage, whether that’s privately or publicly funded or both. He has some ambitious ideas about investing in transit infrastructure to help ease housing costs (and presumably, attract some of those fleeing businesses).

I love all the ideas. They’re right in line with many of the things I think would fix the state’s problems in the right way. They’re big lofty goals with (hopefully) big payouts in the long term.

But these ideas will take money. Whether that’s from tax increases, budgetary changes, or something else…at some point, reality could set in. Frankly, I’d settle for one or two of Mr. Patrick’s proposals to be successfully implemented (as in, not watered down by special interests or grabby politicians). The true test of leadership will come when reality and short-term pain or gratification tries to interfere with evoking real change. Selling far-off gains and long-term thinking to voters is notoriously difficult.

That said, Mr. Patrick can present his ideas perfectly well on his own, so click on to read the transcript.

LYNNE: One of the first things I wanted to ask you, is that housing prices in Lowell, like everywhere else at least in eastern Massachusetts, are becoming economic impediments for a lot of people. I see it’s actually a case of two problems, and the first one is housing for the poor. We’ve had a net loss of public and affordable housing here in Lowell for these populations, partly due to local and state representatives putting a premium on upscaling the city. I don’t think it would be too harsh to call it gentrification, and we’re not the only city where this sort of upscaling is happening. So, what sort of leadership are you prepared to offer on the issues of public and affordable housing?

PATRICK: You said there were two problems, and the first was housing for the poor, what was the second?

LYNNE: Well, the second one that I see is that the middle class is also being squeezed out by housing prices. This has been listed as one of the reasons that businesses are leaving Massachusetts, because they can’t afford to pay workers enough to live here. So, that would be, again, I think a secondary problem, although, one that also needs to be addressed.

PATRICK: I’m glad you said that, because I think increasingly, affordable housing is a middle class issue as well as an issue for poor people. And you’re right to acknowledge that it’s an acute problem in the eastern part of the state…it’s different outside of 495.

I guess I’d say two things. First of all, the problem of a net loss in public housing, meaning housing for poor people, is not a problem limited to Lowell, it’s a problem across the state. We have not been building public housing or acquiring public housing for some while now, and the stock of existing public housing is either not being adequately kept up, or it’s cycling off the rolls. In other words, it’s being either torn down for luxury condos, or turned into more expensive housing because it cycles off after a period of time.

That’s a problem that, by the way, predates this administration. That retreat from public housing has been going on for some while, and I think we see signs that the private economy is not on its own going to solve that problem. So increased investment in public housing is key in Lowell and elsewhere. Now I have some views about how to do that. I don’t think all the investment necessarily has to be through 100% government financing. I think there are private-public partnerships to help do this. And I think that lower density construction is probably better in most places – and that’s a generalization, different communities are different – but in most places lower density projects are better, I think, than the 16-story public project blocks that I knew of as the Robert Taylor Homes when I was growing up in Chicago.

The other thing I’d say is that for many middle class families, transportation is at least one response to affordable housing issues…if you just take the Greater Boston area for example. If you work in downtown Boston, but you can take a high-speed train 45 minutes, at the end of the day, to Fall River/New Bedford. It’s a different housing market, it’s a much more affordable housing market, and that’s a reasonable commute time.

LYNNE: Do you feel that bringing that train system to these areas where the housing market is a little easier on the pocketbook, would start to bring those housing prices up to where, say, the 495 belt is or even further in?

PATRICK: Well, not in the short run, but there’s going to be that pressure. But there would be that pressure no matter where it was you were trying to target for more affordable markets. I’d also say – and this is why I say it’s not the only response – is there’s a supply response as well. Which has to do with making permitting easier for rental unit construction. And [permitting] is unusually hard in Massachusetts. It’s even hard in Boston, to tell you the truth.

Some of that is tradition. We have a lot of open space…it’s wonderful…it’s one of the things about Massachusetts that I like. And we have reasonably smaller scale cities; even the cities, like Lowell, are reasonably smaller in scale than cities in other so-called industrial states.

But look at – actually this has been true in Lowell – in the days when the mills were getting going, those companies built housing for their employees. There are companies I’ve talked to who are looking at that same kind of thing today. And they’ve talked to a couple of banks, one in particular I can think of, who are very interested in supporting individuals who are trying to get a toe hold in home ownership through their employers. How that gets worked out in modern social and other structures is yet to be determined. But it’s something worth thinking about.

I guess what I’m trying to say, Lynne, is that like many of the issues – and I should be briefer in my answers, I know, because you have a lot questions [Laughter.] – the responses have to multifaceted because the problems themselves are multidimensional.

LYNNE: And now for the sort of the opposite, the wrench in the monkey works…in the news recently, that magazine Kiplinger’s Personal Finance listed the Boston housing market as the riskiest in the nation with a 53% chance of declining prices over the next couple years. Obviously this could be an immediate crisis that the long term solutions like better investment in higher ed and small businesses may not be timely enough to prevent a possible pretty catastrophic drop in home values, which while making it easier to live in Massachusetts, will hurt a lot of home and investment property owners. So what sort of short-term solutions would you want to implement to ease this pain, or would the market adjustment just have to be tolerated in order to sort of partly solve this housing crisis we’re in?

PATRICK: Well, I hope the forecast is wrong. I say that as a homeowner myself! [Laughter.]

I mean, this is the tension, right? The people who complain about housing prices being so high are generally people trying to get in to the housing market, not the ones already in it. And the ones already in it are worried more about the impact of increased values on their property tax. And because the current fiscal policy in the state has shifted even more burden onto the property tax to pay for services, that’s something on a lot of people’s minds.

I guess I believe that – this is to one of the premises of your question, Lynne – we don’t do enough in government today to plan for the long term. And even if we don’t get any immediate payoff from a reinvestment in public higher education (and public education in general) or in business development, particularly small- and medium-sized business development, which is where most jobs are created, we have to make that investment because it’s important to our long-term interest. And we’ll just have to see what it means for homeowners, if there is a downturn in the housing market. Because in the short-term, it may mean that homeowners get some relief from the property tax. But I think that beyond that we need to be looking at how to rebalance the fiscal, take the pressure off the property tax and back in more efficient ways of paying for services.

LYNNE: So you’ve talked about health care as a centerpiece of your campaign and your most ambitious proposal, and a lot of people are wondering: how will you succeed where others have failed before you?

PATRICK: Well, you know, the fact that people have failed before me is a factor but it can’t be that we’re at this position today in politics where if it hasn’t been achieved before, it can’t be achieved in the future. The point is, that everybody, whether you have insurance or not, whether you are an employee or employer, whether you’re a doctor, an HMO, a hospital, everybody agrees that the system we have is not working well. And to me, that is an opening for leadership because all of the stakeholders have a reason to come to the table. They don’t have the same reason necessarily, but they have a reason to come to the table. And I think with the right leadership, we can drive through to a result that works for everyone.

Of the proposals that are out there, there are three, you probably know. The governor has a proposal, the Senate president has a proposal, and then there’s a proposal from Health Care for All. Those are, I’d say, the most developed, the most concrete ideas that are on the table. I do think that the destination of health care for everyone is important. Even if we can’t get there in one step. The most ambitious of the proposals is the one that appeals to me the most, which is the Health Care for All proposal. I’m studying them all but I’m focusing on that one.

LYNNE: On a personal note, I’m rooting for you, should you get the nomination and the governorship because actually my husband and I do not have health care. We’re a middle class couple with no kids, so we should be able to afford it, but it’s just out of reach, it’s more expensive than, say, rent…I’m wishing you the best of luck either influencing the debate to get there or getting there yourself, I’m rooting for you.

PATRICK: You’re not unlike a lot of other people who are taking a chance. You’re probably reasonably healthy, and God bless you for that – I hope that continues. Young people, young professionals, and young professionals who are in good health are opting out. Particularly if they are self-employed.

LYNNE: Yes. [Laughter.]

PATRICK: They’re opting out of a health care plan because plans that are available are too expensive for people in that category. If you are employed by a large company, so you can be part of a bigger pool, it is somewhat more affordable, but that depends on the sharing as between how much the company pays and how much individuals pay.

People are struggling with this, and companies, by the way, are not happy either, as I said earlier. So there are different aspects of this issue. There are access issues, there are cost control issues, and there are quality issues as well.

LYNNE: One of the Krugman articles recently pointed out that, what is it, Toyota I think it is? is building their plant in Canada, partly because they’ve got the health care system and so the costs are under control and the cost per person is lower. So I find that interesting, that whole debate. It should be nation-wide, but obviously if we could at least have some kind of a debate here locally then at least the state will be in a better place.

PATRICK: And I think, Lynne, we ought to be willing to go and talk with Toyota about all of the factors in their decision, just because there’s a lot of learning that can come from that.

The other thing I’d say is that the best solution is likely to be, at least conceptually, a federal solution, but we’re not going to get any federal help right now, so we have to do what we can.

LYNNE: Okay. So, where do you see the primary and secondary public schools lacking the most? What do they need the most help in? Where would you start the investment in public education that you talk about?

PATRICK: I think broader access to early childhood education is very important. Everything I read and I’ve heard about talks about the lifetime impact of early childhood education. I think all-day kindergarten is also key. I think we ought to strive toward smaller class size, and [a] longer school day with enrichment programs…I think the MCAS is a fine idea, as one tool to help raise standards. I think that the problem with the MCAS is that it’s the only tool we have to evaluate the progress of kids and as a tool…it’s lacking.

But one of the problems is that we impose the MCAS, and we do it on a system where the learning time for students is so limited, that it is to be expected that a lot of teachers are finding themselves having to teach to the test without much time for much more creativity. So how we create more learning time, I think is something we ought to be willing to put on the table.

LYNNE: And by enrichment programs, I assume you mean art, music, even after school sports, that sort of thing?

PATRICK: Yes, all of it.

LYNNE: To have a sort of gearing kids towards thinking about requiring themselves…I mean, there’s a myriad of things, there’s got to be something that every student is at least somewhat interested in.

PATRICK: That’s right, and it may be things like in-school homework time, it may be seminars, it may be community service work. It doesn’t have to be classroom time, that’s not all I’m talking about. But ways in which students have the company and the attention of adults, particularly for working families, where the school day doesn’t necessarily fit with modern life.

LYNNE: …that’s all I have prepared…but is there anything else that you want to highlight that you’re working on in your campaign, or that you want to make sure people know about you personally. I mean, I know a lot of people have already asked you a lot of those questions so…it was kind of hard to find questions no one asked!

PATRICK: I guess what I would say is that the way in which we have to rebuild our sense of community, in neighborhoods in cities and towns across the state – and frankly, nationally – has got to be top of the mind for anybody who’s serious about leading this state, because much of the leadership we have had has helped this notion penetrate that we, each of us, is in this on his or her own. And that’s wrong. You know, personal responsibility includes shared responsibility, and we haven’t had leadership, in my view, for too long now that is willing to call up the question of what shared responsibility entails, and I think it’s time for that. And that is not a platitude. That has something to do with how we practically live our lives, and how we practically make public policy decisions. So I’m trying to bring that theme forward not just not for purposes of the campaign, but to help alert people to the way I want to govern. And why it’s so important that we govern differently.

LYNNE: Okay, well that’s great. You’ve given me more time than was allotted! [Laughter.]

PATRICK: Well, I appreciate it. I’m very interested in talking with you, and as a part of this frankly, bringing the bloggers into this conversation is key. There are lots of new ways that people have of talking with each other, not just talking at each other.