Left In Lowell

Americans by Choice

8 Responses to “Americans by Choice”

1. MillCity Says:
   March 28th, 2006 at 2:38 pm

   Are you not a “law breaker” if you remain in this or any other country illegally?

2. Tim Little Says:
   March 28th, 2006 at 3:36 pm

   One tack that I don’t think is getting much consideration is what it would take to positively “disincentivize” illegal immigration to the United States.

   I would hazard a guess that the majority of undocumented immigrants here in the US are here because they perceive a greater opportunity for themselves and their families. It’s probably in everyone’s best interest if we invested some resources to help our neighbors in, say, Central and South America, improve standards of living so that there is less demand for emigration to the United States. My guess is that this would be far less expensive and far more sustainable solution in the long term.

   Of course there will always be immigrants – relatively few of us do not have ancestral origins outside the North American continent – and every new wave of immigration keeps America dynamic and vibrant. Still, it is worth taking a step back to look at the big picture, and see why exactly so many people are so anxious to come here in the first place.

3. MillCity Says:
   March 28th, 2006 at 5:10 pm

   Every year thousands of people from countries all around the world become legal United States citizens by following the dynamic equable systems and laws established and modified by past and present governmental administrations.

   Our immigration laws may not match today’s social or economic global wants or needs, however demanding changes to the present system from the point of a “law breaker” does not assist their efforts. Similar, to the local story of the person who was caught stealing a case of beer. The person told the police officer, “I was not stealing the beer. I was simply seeking an opportunity to get drunk.

   To label people who believe in laws versus chaos as a xenophobic or a racist is unfair. The crowd I was in yesterday in Boston was not one race, color, creed or gender. It mirrored the community we exist in today.

4. Lynne Says:
   March 28th, 2006 at 6:55 pm

   Nor is it fair to blame immigrants (illegal or otherwise) when the businesses are hiring them under the table.

   It’s time to stop trying to stop illegal immigration by shutting down borders and time to start prosecuting the big corps that take advantage of these people. They are not able to get the same protections as citizens are, therefore are easily exploitable. They won’t call the police when their human rights are violated, for fear of being deported. I say that’s bad for human rights, and bad for our country.

   First, we need a way to enfranchise those already here who are law-abiding otherwise. Sorry, they’re here, it’s impossible to remove 11M people who are the last people to entangle with the authorities in the first place (for the aforementioned reason). Getting them an opportunity to gain citizenship or at least a green card will make them less afraid of the authorities, and help solve that issue. Stop blaming people for the very things our own families did some time in the last 300 years. Good lord.

   Then, couple that with severe, severe punishments for any company or person hiring someone illegal. Stop the incentives for these companies to do the things they’re doing, and you’ll bring illegal immigration to a trickle, as no one will hire them. Investing in our poorer neighbors is also a good idea. Not like we have much foreign aid ANYway (far less than half a percent of the budget).

   In a large way, illegal immigrants are victims of a system which both punishes them and rewards them - encourages them to come and work here, then punishes them for that encouragement when in their desperation they take us up on it.

5. MillCity Says:
   March 29th, 2006 at 12:07 am

   A few quick facts:

   You are a “law breaker” (your words) if you are an illegal immigrant in this or any other country. Just like drunk drivers, a shoplifter, a tax evader, or any other person who violates the laws established by a stable and recognized government.

   Most illegal immigrants work for businesses that are consumer based (food service, cleaning hotels, personal household help, landscaping, etc.) meaning we as consumers are creating the demand for the goods and services that business are providing or producing. Second we as consumers, continue to demand lower and lower prices.

   If an illegal immigrants do work for a business to business based company (cleaning office buildings after hours, meat packing, agriculture etc.) Once again it is because we as consumers created the demand and demand lower prices.

   See the theme, consumers.

   You are correct, businesses do hire thousands of illegal immigrants above and under the table. However, illegal immigrants are producing and using falsified or providing fake document to gain employment.

   Immigration laws from 300, 100, or even 50 years ago have been adapted to the social or economic conditions throughout the world (wars, famine, genocide). I am sure our grandparents followed the laws of the time to gain United State citizenship.

6. Lynne Says:
   March 29th, 2006 at 9:18 am

   I am sure our grandparents followed the laws of the time to gain United State citizenship.

   Not all of us, no. In fact a good lot of our familes came here without proper papers. The fact is, making illegals (or helping them at all) a felony offense does not solve the problem. It only makes illegals that much more of a hidden, silent, and exploitable group.

   We both are against illegal immigration; I do not care to see people exploited, and you want to lock ‘em up and throw away the key (or send them back home). Your way solves nothing, not the demand for underpaid illegal workers, not the influx through our large borders…you can spend all you like on border security and the INS, but illegal immigration will still happen, and all you’ve done is spend a lot of taxpayer money unwisely.

   Instead, fine the crap out of people and companies who hire illegals. Make it in their best interest to not hire people they can exploit. Provide a better way to let more people into the country legally. I’m not sure I like the guest worker program; does it allow companies to forgo US wage and worker laws? If it does, then it’s a bad idea. Bad for Americans trying to compete (if those jobs paid a living wage we’d be happy to do them) and bad for illegal workers being exploited with no recourse under the law. If our consumer demand is causing the problem, this will mitigate it - companies will not see an economic incentive to hire illegals because of the high chance of serious hits to their bottom line by federal fines.

   On a practical level, and a moral one, my solution is better than yours. It treats people as people, and gives proper bottom-line incentives to corporations to do the right thing (corporations are psychopaths, remember, they do not have a moral conscience unless we give them one with our regulations and laws). Your solution, or the one, I should say, the House Republicans have, of making illegals and anyone who aids them felons, only buries the problem deeper and makes it harder to dig out, not solves it. It’s a knee-jerk reaction bordering (or in some cases, actually being) racist.

7. MillCity Says:
   March 29th, 2006 at 11:05 am

   All I have done is state facts. I have not offered or objected to any solutions to present legislation or proposed legislation.

   To clarify a fact: illegal immigrants are civil violators not criminal.

   Consumers created demand, businesses supply the good and services to support that demand. The principle of responsibility; we as consumers must accept the loin share blame for the 11 million undocumented illegal workers in this country.

   Please do not resort to name calling or implying my position on a issues based on statements of factual information.

8. Mimi Says:
   March 29th, 2006 at 4:24 pm

   Mill City:

   I do not think the statement I made “Some of the rhetoric coming from the anti-immigration forces is xenophobic at best and racist at worst” implied that is how I label all “those who believe in law.” That is not what I wanted to state.

   However, I believe that there are people in this country who do not like immigrants — both documented and undocumented. They are using this round of immigration reform to bash foreigners. Those are the ones who are the target of my comments.

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