Left In Lowell

Bill In State Lege to Save Towns Money On Health Care

26 Responses to “Bill In State Lege to Save Towns Money On Health Care”

1. JOE BISHOP Says:
   January 11th, 2007 at 9:28 pm

   Here is the reason why healthcare costs rose (and will continue to rise): government intervention. How will they combat it? More intervention. Jay Booth we can see through the emperor’s clothes.

2. K-R-S Says:
   January 11th, 2007 at 10:22 pm

   Not necessarily..JOE BISHOP…the more units (ie: individuals) you have to bargain with, the better pricing you get! I’ve been talking about this for a while. Glad to see it is actually coming to fruition.
   More importantly, it is time our government set the restictions on health care and drug costs to Americans.

3. Jay Booth Says:
   January 12th, 2007 at 12:07 am

   Joe Bishop… what on earth are you talking about. The government insuring it’s own employees in a more cost-effective manner is government intervention? What next, paying them is an interference in the capitalist economy?

   FTR all, I heard back from Senator Panagiotakos’ office and they’ll be supporting the bill as will my rep Colleen Garry.. this just makes sense.

4. Josh Says:
   January 12th, 2007 at 12:41 am

   Here’s a money-saving idea: Fire all the government hacks! Let’s be honest 90% of the jobs are there because some politician’s screw-up nephew needed a job or political chrony needed to be rewarded.

   K-R-S: Yea, because price controls have worked wonders for us in the past. Riiiiight.

5. Lynne Says:
   January 12th, 2007 at 7:36 am

   Joe’s so wrong it hurts my head. Every industrialized nation besides ours has universal, single-payer health care, and every other industrialized nation pays far less per person than we do in the US through our private care (and that’s with 45+M uninsured!!).

   Josh: 90% huh? That’s a bit of an exaggeration. I’d say…maybe 10% or so might fit that category, and of course it’s not like that ever happens in the private sector. I mean, honestly.

6. Lynne Says:
   January 12th, 2007 at 7:38 am

   Actually scratch that, I’d say even less than 10%. Maybe less than 5%. But then again, I have as much to back up my numbers as Josh had for his. So.

7. Turtledove Says:
   January 12th, 2007 at 11:54 am

   Reality…healthcare is so expensive because insurance companies are “for-profit” and had somewhere in the range of $5B in profit last year. Take a good look at the reality of where your money goes… not to a physician, not to a hospital, it goes to your insurance company who first take their cut (it’s about 50% of the actual premium you and your employer pay, but will have to check on the current percentage) and doles out the rest of your premium money to take care of your medical needs.
   I read recently that “Medicare is actually the most efficient health insurance provider in the country”. I believe it was actually HHS Secretary Mike Leavitt. I know this guy works for the Bush administration, but he his brilliant and resonable about what needs to change in healthcare to make it more affordable.
   read: http://www.hhs.gov/secretaryspage.html)
   However, I suspect he gets very little support from this administration.

   Every American should have access to healthcare - that will never happen while insurance companies are making the kind of profits they make.

8. Josh Says:
   January 12th, 2007 at 1:08 pm

   The reason healthcare is so messed up is because of the New Deal. Before that, people had savings accounts to pay for any medical problems that might have arisen. When FDR imposed wage and price controls on the country, businesses had to find another way to attract good workers, so they offered them health benefits because technically, it wasn’t a wage increase. The practice became embedded in our culture is is still with us today. 3rd party payments for insurance is highly inefficient (as is single payer).

   Once again, businesses just trying to get along are getting blamed for the screw ups of government interventionists from long ago.

   And as someone who fits into that statistic of currently uninsured, I’m not too worried. If anything bad actually happens, I can go into any emergency room and get treatment. Otherwise, I’m going to try that old preventative method of healthcare called “eating right, exercising, and taking care of myself.”

9. Mimi Says:
   January 12th, 2007 at 1:19 pm

   Josh:
   Am I reading you right, FDR is to blame for the healthcare crisis in the United States?

   Jay:
   Nice job this morning. I thought your exchange with our local municipal employees’ union president was revealing.

10. JOE BISHOP Says:
    January 12th, 2007 at 1:35 pm

    Jay Booth is a political hack.

11. Jay Booth Says:
    January 12th, 2007 at 1:46 pm

    Thanks Mimi . Seriously, the New Deal? Did healthcare even exist before the new deal? I mean, not long before that, the solution to most things was “bite this bullet while I cut your leg off”. Part of my health insurance payments are going towards the probability that Josh will go to the emergency room and be unable to pay. Wage and price controls? Cite? If they were in the service of pulling us out of the great depression and winning WWII, I’d say unintended consequences 70 years later were probably pretty low on FDR’s radar.

    </hack>

12. Mr. Lynne Says:
    January 12th, 2007 at 3:18 pm

    Josh… you’ve stopped thinking and started ranting. This gives your comments an aire of irrelevancy.

13. Lynne Says:
    January 12th, 2007 at 3:29 pm

    Joe, you’re warned. Jay has been nothing but open and honest about his viewpoint here, and I will not tolerate that sort of rhetoric without backing it up. You haven’t reached banning status yet, but don’t cross the line.

    And before people bitch and moan, yes, I have used the word hack to refer to elected officials before. But when I do, it is in the context of explaining why I think that’s the case. You are not adding to the discussion here but you are getting on my last nerve.

14. Jay Booth Says:
    January 12th, 2007 at 4:38 pm

    Honestly Lynne, I was kinda flattered That was the first time anyone’s bothered to label me a hack.. I always thought hacks were more important.

15. Lynne Says:
    January 12th, 2007 at 4:54 pm

    No Jay, they just think of themselves as more important.

    But honestly, this Joe dude is pushing the limits right now, not just here.

16. Josh Says:
    January 12th, 2007 at 5:53 pm

    “FDR’s Folly: How Roosevelt and His New Deal Prolonged the Great Depression” by Jim Powell among many others.

    I’ll let anyone borrow it if they so please.

    You guys do read books, right?

17. Mr. Lynne Says:
    January 12th, 2007 at 6:45 pm

    If I had a nickel for every ideologue that wanted to smear the New Deal I’d be rich.

18. Josh Says:
    January 12th, 2007 at 6:51 pm

    If I had a nickel for every liberal that celebrated the New Deal without ever actually taking the time to study it’s effects, I’d be much richer (until you guys stole my wealth in the name of “equality”).

19. JOE BISHOP Says:
    January 12th, 2007 at 7:34 pm

    Josh, that is a great book. I bought my father it for Christmas. I also recommend his newest one, “Bully Boy: The Truth About Theodore Roosevelt’s Legacy” and his one on Woodrow Wilson (perhaps our worst president ever).

    Also, while FDR’s policies are still crippling America today our great senator Chappaquiddick Teddy sponsored the HMO Act of 1973 which created even a bigger mess of the health care industry.

    While those who do not understand economics push for universal health care some medical professionals are showing how the free market can provide for lower costs.

    In some states for example doctors are opening low cost health clinics which do not take insurance, Medicare or Medicaid. What does this mean: there is essentially no intervention from government bureaucracies or HMO’s. This allows doctors to practice as they did many years ago. The end result is that costs are much, much less than they are because doctors actually practice medicine rather than billing.

    While liberals in this state push for idiotic bills such as universal health coverage these doctors actually treat uninsured people every day. And these are not rich patients, these are low income residents who don’t qualify for state assistance.

    Lynne, your comments are mean spirited, lack any personality and are humorless. Also, you should learn how to spell (or type).

20. Lynne Says:
    January 12th, 2007 at 8:03 pm

    Thanks for assuming we “haven’t studied it” Josh…you’re a real peach. Don’t be insulting. Everything you’ve linked to, I’ve taken a look at, and it’s all bunk. Intellectually, empirically, I can poke holes in it the size of trucks.

21. Lynne Says:
    January 12th, 2007 at 8:05 pm

    Joe, if you don’t like it, then don’t post here. I don’t owe you anything, least of all kindness after many of your comments.

    I love it when people come on here and “start something,” but then whine about how mean I am when I fight back. Whatever. If you want respect, you gotta start with giving it, my friend.

22. Josh Says:
    January 12th, 2007 at 8:17 pm

    Look who is talking about being insulting. You don’t respond to my arguments with counter-arguments. You say “Josh is crazy, I don’t need to respond.” It’s such a cop-out.

    In fact, you use so many ad hominem rebuttels that it has led me to believe that you’re all talk and no game.

    You’re all “hope” and no intellect.

23. waittilnextyr Says:
    January 12th, 2007 at 9:12 pm

    “If anything bad actually happens, I can go into any emergency room and get treatment.”

    Is that “free” treatment, Josh, or do you actually pay for it?

24. Lynne Says:
    January 12th, 2007 at 9:51 pm

    Frankly, Josh, you should feel flattered. One of these days I’ll take the time necessary to really debate you on every point, but I simply don’t have time. That is to some extent a measure of how thorough you are in your points, despite the fact that you’re not convincing on your arguments.

    Unfortunately, I am trying to write a blog, run a business, be part of the art community, a peace group, and to top that all off, I actually do need some down time. And nothing I’ve said is ad hominem, because I have never attacked you. Only your points and your arguments, which I say are totally debunkable and smarter, better people than I have done it time and again. Just because I don’t have two hours to go into why your points are wrong on the evidence, doesn’t mean you have good arguments.

    If I were attacking you personally, trust me, you’d know.

    Plus, my post was specifically aimed at Joe, Josh, but if you feel it was aimed at you, perhaps you have some guilty conscience about your own commentary here?

25. JOE BISHOP Says:
    January 13th, 2007 at 10:06 am

    Now I understand Lynne’s arguments… let’s attack the person and start going off on tangents that have nothing to do with the actual subject.

    When she does “argue” (I use that term loosely) she merely says something to the effect that “your argument is totally debunkable.” Interesting strategy. She never gets into details or specifics on why her ideology is correct. All talk, no substance just like the leftist strategy.

    Also, Lynne I could care less how mean or humorless you are. I don’t lose sleep over that. I am just pointing out a fact. Usually when people argue, they tend to be less mean-spirited, utilize humor, and have some tactfulness. You must have been educated in a public school where if someone doesn’t agree with your position you just sulk and angrily rebuke them.

26. JOE BISHOP Says:
    January 13th, 2007 at 10:40 am

    Look at how childish Lynne is. This is from another comment thread. What adult uses the phrase “Whatever”???

    
    Lynne Says:
    January 12th, 2007 at 7:48 pm
    Whatever Joe. No one is really going to listen to you any more. You don’t even rank as a curmudgeon.
    

Leave a Reply