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February 12, 2008

The FISA Shame Is Ours, Too

by at 9:15 pm.

So utterly disappointing to me.

Harry Reid should be made to step down. This was a terrible travesty of bad leadership. I can no longer support a man, one of the prominent leaders of my party, who would allow this administration, or anyone, to illegally and unconstitutionally spy on Americans without due process.

Why are we even a Democracy? It’s hard to see what our way back would be from this level of capitulation to fascism and corporate protectionism. It’s a sad day, the sort that might have caused our founding fathers to decide that this great experiment would be doomed, had they predicted it.

Let’s hope our House of Representatives stands firm on their version of the bill, against the Senate version, in conference committee. To that end, please call and plead with Rep. Niki Tsongas. (202) 225-3411 in DC or (978) 459-0101 at the Lowell office. Better yet, visit her office in person at 11 Kearney Square. You can also sign this petition at firedoglake, which will be sent to the House.

18 Responses to “The FISA Shame Is Ours, Too”

  1. GOP Footsoldier Says:

    Not for nothing but the founding fathers started rolling over in their graves a LLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGG time ago.

    I’m not keen on the idea of the government listening to my phone calls BUT after a minute or so of my wife and I discussing our dinner plans they’ll stop that and I have nothing to hide so whatever. Again not happy about it but I can’t do anything about it really.

    So my question to you is. Would you approve of listening in on american phone conversations without due process if a large scale attack (thing OK City bombing) would be prevented?

  2. Peter Says:

    Ohhhh Footsoldier, the founding fathers forsaw it all……..Don’t you remember?

    “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

    I’ve said before and I’ll say it again: if, after 7+ years of THIS you still believe……………..

  3. Christopher Says:

    First to answer the last line of comment #1, I would absolutely not approve. If the government thinks there’s reason for concern then they can do it the right way and get a warrant.

    Second, if the government orders a business to do something isn’t the business going to assume it is legal? I understand the concern about immunity on the merits, but I also wonder if to deny them immunity would be like enacting an ex post facto law.

  4. GOP Footsoldier Says:

    Peter,

    Not for nothing but unlike you I don’t relate everything back to the current administration. I believe that no matter how screwed up you or I think our country is, it’s still the best thing going. I think no matter who the CiC is the government is listening in on John Q. Public. I think they have been for years we just didn’t know about it. I don’t think there is really anything I can do about it so I choose not to dwell on it. I also think that the FF would disapprove of quite a few things that you and I and the U.S. Government do daily hence the whole rolling over in the graves comment.

    Just keep telling yourself 01.20.09 and then all our problems will magically dissapear, the terrorists will stop hating us, all the illegals will return home, and all the social programs that Deval errrr Obama wants to get going will be paid for by magic jelly beans not raised taxes. He’s running on “Change”, that will be the only thing left in our pockets once our taxes go up if Obama gets in office!

    All is not well and I never said it was.

  5. joe Says:

    We can’t know before the fact whether listening on somebody would prevent an Oklahoma City-type attack.

    That’s the point - the government could be doing this stuff against the wrong people.

  6. joe Says:

    Nor can we know whether the executive officer doing the wiretapping has a good-faith reason to want to listen in on that person, or if he’s just a) skylarking or b) abusing his office.

    That’s why somebody in another branch of government gets to take a look, and make sure the government isn’t going off the rails.

  7. GOP Footsoldier Says:

    Chris,

    So you’d sacrifice hundreds of lives over a wire tap warrant? Not me.

  8. Mr. Lynne Says:

    Footsoldier,

    As is, current FISA law would let them do what was needed. No need to break the law as has been happening.

  9. GOP Footsoldier Says:

    Mr.Lynne,

    I’m interested to see how the next mid term elections go as the Dems ran on a lot of promises that haven’t even come close to happening, that and the fact that congress has the lowest approval rating ever. Reid and San Fran Nan have some ’splaining to do don’t you think?

  10. Tim Little Says:

    This legislation is, of course, more about the appearance of security than any actual guarantee of security.

    Illicit wiretapping is not going to markedly improve our security, and only opens the possibility of abuse. Just because you think you’re not doing anything wrong doesn’t mean that Uncle Sam will necessarily agree. And if this is all done without due process, what are one’s chances for restitution? For some strange reason we seem to be more concerned with the interestes of billion-dollar corporations than we are in the interests of individuals.

    If the government truly wants to keep the citizenry safe (as much as is ever possible), there are far more honest and effective means of doing so.

    Unfortunately our political system thrives more on style than substance, which is why crap like this ends up passing through Congress.

  11. GOP Footsoldier Says:

    Well said Tim. I agree with that.

  12. Tim Little Says:

    And I agree w. your comment re: Reid and “San Fran Nan” :)

  13. Peter Says:

    Hey man, don’t you dare imply Peter doesn’t love America and think it’s “#1.”

    As far as your suspicions of the President’s magical powers, all mine went out the window when that moronic Kenneth Star investigation went on for so long.

  14. joe Says:

    Reid and San Fran Nan have some ’splaining to do don’t you think?

    Reid does. Pelosi’s been fine.

    What genius decided it was a good idea to elect a Majority Leader from a red state who can barely win re-election?

  15. Tom Says:

    I’m not ready to see the Bill of Rights dismantled. Unfortunately, its too late.

  16. Christopher Says:

    To comment #7, you present a false choice. If our government did things properly there would be no need to worry about your hypothethical hundreds of lives. In our system people’s rights are paramount.

  17. Shawn Says:

    Sorry I missed this one… I agree, Harry Reid should step down.

    (I didnt read beyond there.. that was enough for me)

  18. Lynne Says:

    Yeah Shawn, but for all the wrong reasons… ;P

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