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April 3rd, 2008 at 9:48 am
Tom Tomorrow outlines Hillary’s six point plan:
http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2008/03/31/tomo/
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:04 pm
Yes, Lynne plenty of people still find Hillary credible. To me anything less than seating those two delegations is unacceptable. The real mistake was kowtowing to NH and the DNC in the first place. God forbid the superdelegates vote their consciences! Neither candidate can win without some of them. I’m prepared to enthusiatically support the Democratic nominee whoever it is, are you? I’m glad you have found a candidate to support, but there is no excuse for your total disrespect for Hillary.
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:32 pm
I love how the pro-Clinton people always argue that seating FL and MI is the only fair choice. Like those states’ elections were fair to begin with (again, one candidate on the ballot in MI, no one campaigning in FL). How the hell can you use those elections in deciding the party’s nominee? Unless you seat them exactly 50% for each candidate regardless of the outcome, it’s not fair.
Look, the system is pooched, of that I have no doubt. We need to look into it. But FL and MI Dems knew the rules when they moved their primary date up so far. If those DNC rules were not enforceable, we might as well not have a Democratic party at all. You cannot change the rules halfway through just because they suit you. Change them before, change them after, yes. But not in the middle.
This is EXACTly like when Patrick played by the rules (previously changed in favor of the establishment) at the state Dem convention for getting on the ballot…and played so well, the establishment then wanted to change the rules on the fly because they got shut out. Boo hoo. You got outplayed by a very good campaign, that time, and this time. I used to have a modicum of respect for Hillary (besides the parts of her voting record that I absolutely hated, and her neoliberal tendencies) but now she’s starting to lie, cheat and steal because she’s about to lose the race. I always will call hypocrisy when I see it. Just because I see it in your candidate doesn’t mean it’s not a fair assessment. You may not be able to see your candidate’s major flaws, but the rest of us can, including the independents that we need to win in November. Her negatives are driving in one direction - up. And they weren’t (fair or not fair) very low to begin with.
Not to mention, I haven’t endorsed any candidate. I do support Obama, but only in so far as I see him as THE best way to win in November, the best way to revive the party, and someone I don’t have to be ashamed to call the nominee.
Can’t say that about Hillary Clinton now. There’s so much for her to be ashamed of in the last couple months.
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:43 pm
I really can’t see how the process can be described as fair if it involves telling candidates that “these states won’t count” and then counting them after the fact. I can’t get over how fundamentally unfair it would be.
As far as the superdelegates go: yes it is perfectly permissible for them to “vote their consciences” under the rules. However, if their consciences disagree with the popular will and the act on them, its hard to see how those that represent the popular will can interpret it except with great resentment at an insider game.
April 3rd, 2008 at 5:52 pm
You’re right, the state’s elections were not fair to begin with. If I had my way all candidates would have united to say they would all campaign in both states and the DNC could go jump in a lake. Florida was close to fair as nobody campaigned and everyone was on the ballot, and the people decided. All of Michigan’s uncommitted delegates should be encouraged to vote for Obama to make up for him not being on the ballot. The other option would be 50% cut and no superdelegates which was the original proposal anyway. To not seat delegations from these states at all is the one option which is completely unacceptable to me.
April 3rd, 2008 at 6:33 pm
With all due respect to all involved, the fairest result to the candidates would be to do what the party said it would do - not count those delegates. Any other ’solution’ involves an after-the-fact change - an almost textbook definition of unfair. As to what would be fair to the primary voters of FL and MI?… thats a much more difficult question. Hopefully they will throw out whoever the geniuses are in their respective legislatures who decided that playing chicken with the national parties was a good thing.
April 4th, 2008 at 11:00 am
I think I may be slightly more Pro-Clinton than Pro-Obama. But I come to conclusions based upon what is right. Not what “fits” what and where I want it to.
The Michigan and Florida thing is stupid. Both states knew going in what their votes wouldn’t count but they just HAD to be among the first ones on with their states oppinion mentioned on TV. They’re like children! I don’t care who these votes would help. I have NO problem voting for Obama. The main point is getting rid of the GOP, PERIOD!!!(EXCLAMATION POINT)
I miss Chris Dodd.
April 4th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
The Dodd abides.
April 4th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Haha nice one.
I also miss the trips to Cuba that could have been coming along a lot sonner with a Dodd administration.
Oh well, next year in Cuba!
April 5th, 2008 at 9:48 am
If the dude with the racist preacher wins the primary, I’ll have to start reading up on McCain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xtNr5-up0U
April 5th, 2008 at 11:49 pm
I have heard many republicans colleagues say that they are voting for Hillary so that they can show how the democrats will mess things up for 4 years, and to ensure that Obama does not get in. They say that McCain is so liberal that he will make the party look bad and that if they do not vote Hillary then Obama will get in. They said they are picking the lesser of the evils.
April 6th, 2008 at 8:20 am
Michael, you are not serious. Please. Let’s talk about the religious people that McCain associates with…no one seems to care about that. Or Clinton (see this).
We all know, we all do, that Obama does not share his pastor’s views on some of these things. How could anyone have watched Obama’s career and believe that? You’d have to be looking for an excuse not to vote for Obama, I think.
Also, I can’t say that I would use the same phrases as this Wright guy, but an awful lot of his remarks hit home. We ARE an imperialist power, and we’re arrogant, and we’re doing harm both to our own citizens and to people around the world. And we’re gonna jump all over this guy because he uses inflammatory language to point it out? Take out the log in your own eye first.
April 6th, 2008 at 10:01 am
> We all know, we all do, that Obama does not share his pastor’s views on some of these things.
> How could anyone have watched Obama’s career and believe that? You’d have to be looking for
> an excuse not to vote for Obama, I think.
The problems with Obama are clearly out there if one cares to look. Wright’s a problem as is Obama’s upbringing. And the biggest problem is that he has no experience.
He doesn’t believe his pastor? Why did he stay at that church for 20 years? I had attended a church for many years and when they changed doctrinally, I left. I do not understand how someone sits and listens to that kind of hate for so long and exposes their children to it. It seems like child abuse to me. And then to consider him your inspiration. One other thing that really bothered me about Wright was when they were at a political event which was really an excuse for a party. Wright encouraged Obama to commit adultery at the event. He officiated at Obama’s marriage. I don’t see why Obama didn’t understand the character of his minister at the time and leave him.
> Also, I can’t say that I would use the same phrases as this Wright guy,
> but an awful lot of his remarks hit home. We ARE an imperialist power,
> and we’re arrogant, and we’re doing harm both to our own citizens and
> to people around the world. And we’re gonna jump all over this guy because
> he uses inflammatory language to point it out? Take out the log in your
> own eye first.
He used racist language.
As I said, it’s not hard to learn about the cult of Obama.
Those afflicted with hope have the biggest letdowns when their personal interpretations of hope do not materialize.
April 6th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
> Also, I can’t say that I would use the same phrases as this Wright guy,
> but an awful lot of his remarks hit home. We ARE an imperialist power,
> and we’re arrogant, and we’re doing harm both to our own citizens and
> to people around the world. And we’re gonna jump all over this guy because
> he uses inflammatory language to point it out? Take out the log in your
> own eye first.
So do you agree with everything that Wright said? Or do you agree with Obama in condemning what Wright said. Or do you think that Obama actually agrees with what Wright said and that he isn’t being truthful in his condemnation of Wright? Or if he’s just trying to get those that believe as Wright does to stay with him and those that believe in his condemnation to stay with him?