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September 29th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Lynne,
“THIS is the opportunity of a lifetime, Democrats!” I have to call Bullshit on that. This is a major opportunity for the suits on BOTH sides of the aisle in DC to restore some faith to those of us on Main Street.
I don’t give a F*&# which party figures this mess out. It needs to be done by both. I for one am glad that the house GOP killed this thing. Hopefully something that LENDS the money to these greedy bastards instead of just handing it over will prevail.
Thaddeus McCotter (R) Michigan had a great line yesterday. I’ll paraphrase- “What we’re doing with this bailout is ringing America’s doorbell with a $700 Billion bag of dung in our hands, dropping it on their doorstep and then expecting them to be happy about it. This bill can’t pass.”
To put this in greater prospective, McCotter and John Boehner are usually in lockstep and Boehner is in favor of the bail out. Strange times indeed.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
A few things:
This is a really interesting comment on BMG. http://www.bluemassgroup.com/showComment.do?commentId=154506
You should do yourself a favor and read it.
Second, I say that we should make Wall Street pay for this bill. A 25 cents per transaction on each stock on Wall Street would raise $350 billion a year. Let Wall Street pay for their own damn problems.
After all the bailouts are paid for and no more are needed, end the tax.
Any profits the US makes from these bailouts could then go toward a) creating new regulations and, if necessary, regulatory agencies and b) toward keeping people in their homes, especially those who fell victim to predatory lending, by restructuring their mortgages.
September 29th, 2008 at 8:12 pm
The discussion is focused on how to patch the problem, with little note given to correct the basic problem. That is, we have become a national of wealth spenders, as opposed to wealth creators. The rules have changed so that we can borrow against our real estate assets for spending not related to improving the asset, and the federal government gives us a tax break to do so. Meanwhile, we allow multi-national companies to compete humans around the world in a race to the bottom, taking advantage of tax policies enabled by their lobbyists to maximize their profit in doing so. The primary incentives in our Capital society are aimed at those who manipulate wealth, rather than creating things of value.
We must:
a) change our trade deals to require equal treatment of workers on both sides of the border
b) change out tax policies to favor savings over borrowing and domestic work over foreign work
c) modify the individual tax code to discourage excessive compensation by closing all loopholes and increasing the progressivity of the tax rates
d) individually live within our means
September 29th, 2008 at 10:24 pm
I do not want to pay for all the people that are falsely inflating our economy. I could not agree with waittilnextyr more abot individuals living within our means. I am so sick of paying for people that should not and do not own what they have. I have close friends that I know that have stopped paying their credit card bills because they were told that they might as well. (someone now pays them with higher interest) They bought homes that they could not afford and for several years got to send their kids to schools that I could not “afford” on a higher income. Many may disagree but I think many people are just not meant to ever be home owners. I have saved my money, I have invested my money, I live in a home in Lowell when I could live in Winchester, we have one (4) year car payment and have kept one 10 year old car, and we have not had a credit card in 10 years. I am done! A thank you to those who stood up for personal responsibilty and stopping the tax loophole bleed. I will take my free cash and buy stock. The market will respond without against Bush.
September 30th, 2008 at 7:55 am
The problem is, individuals WILL live beyond their means if they are allowed. We need to shepherd good behavior, not blame everyone after the fact.
The fact is, these last 10-20 years, credit was too easy to get, and too enticing with low rates, low payments, etc. That is a high-level policy decision by Bush and the executive branch (the Fed, etc). Alan “Bubbles” Greenspan and Son of Greenspan (Bernake) preserved the short term at the expense of the long term with their central bank policy.
Yes, it sucks when you watch people around you do the stupid. However, you are NEVER going to stop some people from wanting to feel good in the short term at the expense of the long term - just like you are never going to see the average corporation voluntarily act responsibly for the long term and forgo short term profits to maintain long term viability. Sorry, that’s human nature. That’s psychology. What good and responsible regulations and tax systems do is incentivize people to do the right thing despite their first instinct to think only short term. That’s what’s been missing, from both our social policy, and from our economic policy, certainly since King George got into office. It extends back a little bit though, Greenspan was stupid long before he had a stupid boss. With Congressional Republican (and some Dem) help (deregulating the accounting industry over Clinton’s veto which resulted in a bubble, and Enron/Worldcom).
Also, there is NO education in our schools regarding responsible budgeting and long term financial thinking. How do we expect people to know what you, kpem, know or figured out, magic? Fairies maybe? Little elves?
September 30th, 2008 at 8:51 am
“Also, there is NO education in our schools regarding responsible budgeting and long term financial thinking. How do we expect people to know what you, kpem, know or figured out, magic? Fairies maybe? Little elves?”
WRONG. I graduated from GLRVTS in 1996. One of the required components of math and Accounting 1 was personal finance (balancing a checkbook etc.) They paid you gave you a list of bills and gave you instructions of what needed to be paid when. It was up to you to do the work. They taught us how to open a bank account, read a statement, and fill out checks. I’ve since said that the rest of High Schools should be made to leanr something from the “dumb vokies”.
September 30th, 2008 at 9:59 am
Well it ain’t universal, my friend. That’s the first program I’ve really heard of. Great for you, but it should be required for everyone. I certainly didn’t get anything in school (other than a week in jr. high of all places! We did this checkbook thing in Social Studies).
Most friends I have when I ask say they didn’t get anything either…
So good on the votech! I wonder if that program still exists? Of course, balancing checkbooks is still only one little tiny part of the whole finance-and-budget thing anyway. It would need to be far more comprehensive than that, talking about loans, credit cards, and mortgages. Etc etc.
September 30th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
Actually Mrs. Fox also took a similar course in Brockton. I would wager that part of the math/accounting course still exists as both teachers I had are still teaching there. The course also gave us a look at credit cards and loans all be it simple loans. But still I learned a lot.
I too think that all seniors nationwide should have a “personal finance management” component in their math classes. But there I go again, giving away my platform for when I run for office for free….
September 30th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
” It would need to be far more comprehensive than that, talking about loans, credit cards, and mortgages. Etc etc.”
Lynne,
These are things you learn after living in the adult world. (would be nice to learn them earlier) It is an ego thing that drives these people not a lack of education. We go camping and when a few new trailers come in all the sudden you see an influx of new trailers, when a few new boats come in next you see a bunch of new boats, then comes the new pick up trucks. It is all ego as these people can not afford them. If they were going to teach something in school maybe it would be self esteem and self control so these people could just say no. I know so many people in Lowell and Dracut that have interest only mortgages. Completely irresponsible and they now better. I watched Greenspan for years in shock and awe waiting for the rate hike. It never happened and it over inflated home prices through the roof. It left us with three rental homes to sell at a much higher price then they should have ever sold for. I honestly feel bad for the new owners as they are probably screwed. (I know 3 out of the 3 went to people with high interest variable rate loans) It is so sad that the government needs to save people from themselves!
September 30th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
My point, though, kpem, is that that behavior needs to be regulated by making credit less free flowing, therefore making living beyond your means a little less easy. It is human nature to desire short term gain even though it’s not sustainable.
The next thing we have to go after are credit card companies. They are even worse, if you can believe it, than the mortgage companies have been. At least with a mortgage, there’s collateral. What’s with giving out tens of thousands in unsecured credit??? If the credit companies had a national cap on how high an interest rate they could charge, you’d see them getting a little more selective on who they’d give out credit to. (Hint: it wouldn’t be $5000 limits to college kids.)
September 30th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Again many of us screwed ourselves with a Sears credit Card at 18 w/ the $2000 limit but we learned from it. It is the credit card company that gives a card to the same person that has not payed their bill over and over again at a higher rate. I understand that we need tighter regulations to protect dumb people from themselves. (maybe we should be studying the “spending” addiction going on) I worked at a bank and wrote car loans and mortgages years ago and knew which ones would default (we had to keep some of the dealers happy so wrote em any ways w/ 11-22% interest rates) So if we do not do the bail out wont we be restricting credit? This just lets people and companies know that we can spend, spend, spend and there will be a bailout or another lender that will accept you. I have zero concerns about getting credit if need be even without a bailout. Those that do should not be getting it anyways. The market will adjust to where it shoulf be.