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September 30th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
It doesn’t matter, you think the Legislature will actually do the will of the people if we all vote YES? It will die in a session and they’ll scoot out on a recess like the Gay Marriage situation.
September 30th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
For one thing, this is not the same process as gay marriage - that was a constitutional amendment and was addressed in Constitutional Convention. (And they did the right thing anyway.)
As they would be doing the right thing to reverse (well within their rights) any bill passed by voter initiative. There’s a reason you elect people. It’s to vote on things. They’re allowed to reverse course on anything, even a law passed by uninformed voters.
September 30th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
I know it’s not the same process, but my point still stands I seem to remember a tax roll back being passed and the legislature hasn’t acted on that. This game is rigged.
As far as uninformed voters go you’re right. When I hear people piss and moan about (insert pol here) and then ask if they voted for them? The person will then admit yes. I laugh at them and ask why don’t you vote for their opponent? I get looked at like I have two heads.
So unless there is a concerted (sp) effort by everyone in this state to get rid of all the entrenched hacks in sucessive election cycles the will of the people not matter how in/uninformed it may be will not be done.
October 1st, 2008 at 11:06 am
The legislature has a right to pass laws, Guy. That includes reversing a voter-passed initiative. They rescinded it after the first rollback, because the state was suffering revenue-wise, during the last downturn.
And in my opinion they did the right thing. As they would do the right thing in reversing this law should it get passed. It’s suicide.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:43 pm
I say we vote for Christmas every day, and to pave the streets with chocolate bars and lolipops. I want to “send the legislature a message” and that message is candy!
No taxes huh? Effin simpletons, they remind me of the girls Howard Stern would have on who didn’t even know who the Vice President was. I just can’t imagine how you can grow up to voting age and possibly remian so moronic, how do you manage to dodge so much information!!!
I mean no offence to anyone and don’t mean this in a derogatory way, but rather in a quantitative measure, how can they possibly be THAT moronic? And no, if you ever saw me, I ain’t “elite.”
October 2nd, 2008 at 10:47 am
The government of this state is bloated, corrupt, and unaccountable. Hacks too numerous to mention make exorbitant salaries for collecting tolls, standing at construction sites, etc.
Do we really need ten assistant deans at Umass making over $250,000 a year? I went to Umass-Amherst, the facilities suck, the food is disgusting, and the service is abysmal.
Every argument against the tax cut seems to consist of fearmongering and namecalling(See Peter’s “Effin simpletons” who “remian moronic”)
Do you really think that the state can’t cut some fat elsewhere before they start laying off teachers? It is frightening to me that so many teachers, who are entrusted to educate our children, refuse to even question the orders handed down to them by the union.
I will be voting yes on 1, proudly. It is time to stand up to our thieving, nanny-state government.
October 2nd, 2008 at 1:22 pm
this simpleton is voting for Bennie
October 2nd, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Links, please? Where do you see the salaries and the responsibilities of said numbers of persons? How do you know what salaries are fair for said positions? What are the salaries of comparable positions in other colleges? Private ones? What are the duties of said persons? I worked for the Dean of Civil Engineering at UNH, he worked his tail off, on top of all his other duties, he had to keep his department together. He was under constant stress.
Yes there are hacks. (I’ll also note the number of hacks I’ve met in the PRIVATE sector too.) But the percentage, despite your incoherent ranting, is likely in the low single digits at best. This according to people who are part of nonpartisan nonprofits who spend their days perusing the budgets for waste. You are clueless. This income tax reduction represents a ***70%*** cut in spending on the non-obligatory parts of the budget (in other words, after you pay the things that canNOT be cut, like debt service).
October 2nd, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Shawn/Benny:
Look at today’s Globe headline: “Governor Announces Budget Cuts”
http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2008/10/governor_announ_1.html
Please tell me in what way it is at all fiscally or morally responsible to cut state revenue by 40%? What particular public services are you willing to do without?
October 2nd, 2008 at 2:17 pm
BTW, here’s what this means in terms of actual dollar losses to Lowell and Dracut:
Lowell:
FY09 state aid $35,717,862
Estimated cut $23,118,260
Percent of state aid 65%
http://votenoquestion1.com/towns.php?town_code=160
Dracut:
FY09 state aid $5,501,640
Estimated cut $3,560,917
Percent of state aid 65%
http://votenoquestion1.com/towns.php?town_code=79
Again, public services — basic services — take a significant hit that won’t be made up when John Doe decides to take his extra $3600/year up to the Pheasant Lane Mall.
October 2nd, 2008 at 3:40 pm
Here’s a link to a database of all state workers.
http://www.bostonherald.com/projects/payroll/massachusetts/
This lists salaries only, so I have no idea what their responsibilities are, and I am sure many of them are justified, and many do excellent work. The point is that I am pretty sure that they are not ALL justified. For example, in five minutes of searching I saw dozens of Administrative Assistants that made over $50K a year. I am sure they are good people and may do an excellent job, that doesn’t mean they deserve what they are making.
You mention you worked for at UNH, New Hampshire does not have an income tax, yet they manage to survive and have several state universities.
Your point about the private sector is irrelevant. Private corporations do not take my income against my will to use as they see fit. The state does.
I don’t know what you do for a living, but judging from your hostility( incoherent ranting, clueless) I have a feeling that you may work for the state yourself.
# Tim Little Says:
October 2nd, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Shawn/Benny:
Look at today’s Globe headline: “Governor Announces Budget Cuts”
http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2008/10/governor_announ_1.html
Please tell me in what way it is at all fiscally or morally responsible to cut state revenue by 40%? What particular public services are you willing to do without?
In what way is it fiscally or morally responsible to rob the public to pay people much more than they are worth because they happen to be related to a State Rep.?
October 2nd, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Wanna save a bunch?
Higher education is mentioned nowhere in any of the founding documents as being a role of government in a free society..
Privatize em all.. that’ll probably save you 40% right there.
The cuts that Patrick is looking at have been talked about for years.. whats the chance any of them will go through? Probably the same as when Romney put them forward.
Parks, culture, arts, golf courses, pensions for elected politicians, advertising, redundant health & welfare programs… pull out the budget and ask..
Why has the state budget gone up at a rate that is orders of magnitude greater than the inflation rate?
Its time to realize that we don’t want the state doing everything for us.
October 2nd, 2008 at 5:59 pm
Benny, you just proved my point you. If you read this blog at all you’d know that I’m actually a small business owner, and have worked previously for Big Corporate America, cubicle farm and all. I’ve never worked as an employee for the state.
What I’m saying that you decided to provide NO context, whatsoever, just want to attack spending without having a clue about whether or not it’s justified. So forgive me, but I’m going to call you on it. You made a poorly documented, poorly supported general statement to try and prove your point - and you admit that you are “sure many of them are justified, and many do excellent work” after I called you on it. Seems like maybe I was on to something.
“The point is that I am pretty sure that they are not ALL justified. For example, in five minutes of searching I saw dozens of Administrative Assistants that made over $50K a year. I am sure they are good people and may do an excellent job, that doesn’t mean they deserve what they are making.”
1) A lot of educated people SNEEZE and make more than $50K a year. In MA that’s merely a competitive salary, not a real high one. So you have no point to make there.
2) You’re “pretty sure” that not all of them are justified? How scientific. You admit to having no clue what their duties and responsibilities are, but you’re willing to go out on a limb and say that some, many, whatever, are unjustified. Uh huh. Look, I’m not saying that we should be auditing our spending, and salaries and positions etc, but by no means have you even made a sliver of a case about these particular jobs. Sorry, I take things on more than someone’s gut feeling.
Dude, if you knew ANYthing about NH taxes, you’d know they are severely hit by the VERY regressive property tax, and they are no less taxed than we are, pretty much, except it hits the lower and middle income much harder proportionally than the rich (even the renters, with higher rent). I know someone who just bought a house in NH, worth less than the one I bought here in Lowell, and has more than double my property tax. That WILL happen here if we eliminate the income tax.
Shawn: Sure, let’s do that. And watch all the gains made by the middle class evaporate besides. You go ahead and live in a country like that. But if you look at countries that make higher ed affordable and public, like the Scandinavian countries, you’ll see much higher upward mobility, a larger, more stable middle class, and a more educated workforce capable of achieving more innovation and a greater instance of incubated small business. Most people can’t afford to go to private colleges like BU or MIT or Harvard or even lesser-known, non-Ivy-League
This country’s middle class was BUILT on the greater availability of higher ed after WWII, with the VA bills. Small businesses are incubated at our state universities, new ideas tried out, they are an economic engine.
So you go live in a world like that, but I’ll take the upward mobility and stronger middle class thanks. If it wasn’t for PUBLIC higher ed, I might not be doing as well as even my parents at the same age. I not only got low-interest loans for school, but school wasn’t so expensive as to make even loaning money impossible. I am grateful for our public services, be they culture, parks, higher ed, etc. They build our quality of life to the level we have enjoyed this last century.
I highly doubt public higher ed is 40% of the budget, and you’re working with the wrong percentage anyway. After you account for the parts of the budget that by law MUST be paid (like debt service), the income tax is actually around 70% of the budget.
Like I said, go live in your world - somewhere else. My values are different, and you should be grateful, because your standard of living depends on it, as does mine.
October 2nd, 2008 at 6:02 pm
FYI Shawn you’re wrong about the rate of the budget going up. In real dollars, the budget still hasn’t reached its pre-2008 levels, according to people much smarter than I.
October 2nd, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Er, pre-2002-03
October 2nd, 2008 at 8:27 pm
I would gladly double(maybe triple) my Lowell property tax not to pay MA State tax. The problem is that it is completely unrealistic and city’s and towns with lower tax bases would have inferior schools and town services like happens in Northern NH. Yes, I want to pay more then my share to support equality. I am sure people in Newton,Weston, and Wellesley would support it though. Residents in Lowell have no right supporting something that would cut our aid and leave us cash strapped. NH is struggling to get money out of its border towns (funny how the towns close to MA do well) to redistribute to the rest of the state. No thank you.
October 2nd, 2008 at 9:44 pm
I have no desire to pay double (or, Oh My…Triple) my property taxes, because nearly 40% of my own paycheck goes to taxes (state & mostly fed).
What I’d rather, is that the state of MA, actually do away with the jobs program/state jobs and actually operate on a system that hires the best and the brightest, not the most related & incompetant.
October 2nd, 2008 at 9:55 pm
I assumed that anyone living in Massachusetts would accept that there is a ton of wasteful spending in state government. If you dispute that, I don’t know what to tell you. I gave a link to the database if you want to research further.
“The point is that I am pretty sure that they are not ALL justified. For example, in five minutes of searching I saw dozens of Administrative Assistants that made over $50K a year. I am sure they are good people and may do an excellent job, that doesn’t mean they deserve what they are making.”
1) A lot of educated people SNEEZE and make more than $50K a year. In MA that’s merely a competitive salary, not a real high one. So you have no point to make there.
An administrative assistant is basically a secretary. An important job, and an honorable one, but not one that requires any specialized skills. How about hundreds of toll collectors making from $50K-$70K?
2) You’re “pretty sure” that not all of them are justified? How scientific. You admit to having no clue what their duties and responsibilities are, but you’re willing to go out on a limb and say that some, many, whatever, are unjustified. Uh huh. Look, I’m not saying that we should be auditing our spending, and salaries and positions etc, but by no means have you even made a sliver of a case about these particular jobs. Sorry, I take things on more than someone’s gut feeling.
Again, I didn’t think I had to go into that much detail. How about guys working in the physical plant at Umass-Lowell who sit and stare at boilers all day? They maybe work two or three hours a day, get paid about $50K, and have all sorts of cushy benefits. I know this for a fact because I know some of them personally. If you cant accept that there is any waste or fraud in MA govt., than by all means keep paying taxes to keep Sal DiMasi’s cousins employed.
I’m sorry if I assumed that you worked for the state, but usually statists have a financial reason for supporting legalized thievery. You apparently just love letting corrupt bureaucracies run your life. My mistake.
www.smallgovernmentact.org
October 2nd, 2008 at 10:06 pm
I was talking about double property tax vs. paying state taxes (I pay about $5500 a year to MA so I could be pro property tax anti state tax).
” jobs program/state jobs and actually operate on a system that hires the best and the brightest, not the most related & incompetant.” Can you explain who/what you mean?
October 2nd, 2008 at 10:58 pm
Response to comment #12:
Shawn, you are completely wrong in your assertion - “Higher education is mentioned nowhere in any of the founding documents as being a role of government in a free society.”
I direct your attention to Part II, Chapter v, Section 2 of the Massachusetts Constitution:
“Wisdom, and knowledge, as well as virtue, diffused generally among the body of the people, being necessary for the preservation of their rights and liberties; and as these depend on spreading the opportunities and advantages of education in the various parts of the country, and among the different orders of the people, it shall be the duty of legislatures and magistrates, in all future periods of this commonwealth, to cherish the interests of literature and the sciences, and all seminaries of them; especially the university at Cambridge, public schools and grammar schools in the towns; to encourage private societies and public institutions, rewards and immunities, for the promotion of agriculture, arts, sciences, commerce, trades, manufactures, and a natural history of the country; to countenance and inculcate the principles of humanity and general benevolence, public and private charity, industry and frugality, honesty and punctuality in their dealings; sincerity, good humor, and all social affections, and generous sentiments among the people.”
Our founding generation was near unanimous in their opinion that education was important enough to be public. Even Thomas Jefferson, widely known as a proponent of limited government believed that a university was an appropriate state function. George Washington bequeathed a portion of his estate to Congress for the purpose of founding a national public university, but that never materialized.
October 2nd, 2008 at 11:56 pm
Benny:
“In what way is it fiscally or morally responsible to rob the public to pay people much more than they are worth because they happen to be related to a State Rep.? ”
By all means, find such instances and shine daylight on them. If there are ineffeciencies, libertarians, conservatives, and liberals alike would like to see them addressed. Surely you’re not intending to create a straw man by insinuating that because such an inefficency may exist that Tim is condoning them by not wanting to drastiacally change the whole systm. That would be reaching, of course.
October 3rd, 2008 at 12:05 am
“Higher education is mentioned nowhere in any of the founding documents as being a role of government in a free society.”
So it’s settled then? We clearly can’t be allowed to spend any money on things not mentioned in the Constitution ™? Obviously not the case, so it’s really a meaningless assertion. The constitution doesn’t say anything about primary school education or clean water either, but we clearly have the constitutional right to write laws about them and budget for them.
“Why has the state budget gone up at a rate that is orders of magnitude greater than the inflation rate?”
Do you have figures somewhere? Were I to engage in some analysis, the first thing I’d suspect is that comparing the budget to the rate of inflation only works if you assume a constant population, constant state expenses, and constant services. The second two would require a pretty detailed analysis, but the population adjustment shouldn’t be too hard to figure in.
October 3rd, 2008 at 12:10 am
“I don’t know what you do for a living, but judging from your hostility (incoherent ranting, clueless) I have a feeling that you may work for the state yourself.”
Baseless broad brush characterization of state workers. I’d avoid it in the future.
Also Lynne is correct that a simple listing of salaries doesn’t prove anything other than what the salaries. If you want to make a point about the salaries, you have to add some analysis of the data that makes your point.
October 3rd, 2008 at 12:16 am
“I assumed that anyone living in Massachusetts would accept that there is a ton of wasteful spending in state government. If you dispute that, I don’t know what to tell you. I gave a link to the database if you want to research further.”
Ton? Maybe. Let’s find the waste, shed light on it, and elect people who can deal with it. Nobody has asserted that waste doesn’t exist. Nobody has asserted that it shouldn’t be redressed. The is that the elimination of the income tax. While this could certainly add pressure to redress waste, it will do more damage than good in the process. This assertion is in no way a denial of the existence of waste and you should stop treating it as such in the conversation.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:16 am
Shawn, I have to call you on this:
“Why has the state budget gone up at a rate that is orders of magnitude greater than the inflation rate?”
“orders of magnitude” generally means by factors of 10! Hardly the case. The current year inflation rate is running about 6%, whereas in the past few years it has ranged between 2-4%. Maybe you meant to say “far greater than inflation rate”. But even that would be an overstatement. As far as the MA state budgets, the past 3 years are:
FY 2007 $25.297B
FY 2008 $26.590B (an increase of 5.1%)
FY 2009 $27.926B (an increase of 5.0%)
And when it comes to cuts by the Governor, the push-back is not limited to one side of the aisle:
Jones strongly opposes expanding Patrick’s budget cutting powers
By Jeremy P. Jacobs
State House Minority Leader Brad Jones said Tuesday that he does not support granting Gov. Deval Patrick expanded powers to trim the state budget as he sees fit.
The North Reading Republican was responding to Monday meetings on what actions the state will take in reaction to the current economic crisis facing the country. Patrick, a Milton Democrat, has sought broadened executive powers since signing the fiscal 2009 budget in July to make emergency budget cuts if necessary.
“I am certainly not on the page of granting the governor additional power,” Jones told PolitickerMA.com.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:56 am
Hey Benny, your boss should cut your pay 40% so you stop wasting money and start living better.
It’s just a waste of breath/typing/effort as these people have NO NO NO concept of society and social obligation. They SERIOUSLY think “I did all this all by myself, nobody ever helped me.” They feel they owe nothing to anyone, least of all the government.
I’ve said if before but I’d really like to suspend ALL government functions for a few days so these people could see what happens when someone comes over to their house and starts taking their stuff and nobody stops can stop them because they have guns. Then on they way out they could light the house on fire and nobody would come to put it out. Then they’d have to hire a baby-sitter because they’d have nowhere for the now-ignorant kids to go because there’s no school. Soon their parents would be showing up for dinner or else moving back in because they can’t afford to buy dogfood for dinner anymore because the social security checks stopped coming. Lots of traffic to because none of the street lights anywhere would be opperational.
But hey, these people are used to “doing it all on their own” so no big deal right? Yeah, let’s vote for no taxes.
October 3rd, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Benny writes:
“In what way is it fiscally or morally responsible to rob the public to pay people much more than they are worth because they happen to be related to a State Rep.?”
Ok, I appreciate that you — and many others, apparently — feel hurt and taken advantage of, but that’s a wholly separate issue from what Question 1 proposes. Will you really feel any better if Question 1 passes?
“Yes on 1″ is the equivalent of a three year-old throwing a temper tantrum and trashing *all* of his toys because someone else is playing with his teddy bear. The difference is that Question 1 proposes slashing state revenue by 40%, and that an awful lot of people will get hurt because of that. Is that a grown-up reaction?
October 7th, 2008 at 10:51 am
Hey, I identified wasteful spending on the order of a few hundred thousand dollars, less than 1% of the state government!
Let’s burn the whole thing down! God, imagine is the private sector had to function with all those arrows being slung at it, I’d have personally burnt down my auto insurance carrier, med insurance company and comcast cable by now.