Left In Lowell

U. Mass Lowell Makes Announcement Regarding Doubletree Hotel

38 Responses to “U. Mass Lowell Makes Announcement Regarding Doubletree Hotel”

1. Eleanor Rigby Says:
   April 23rd, 2009 at 6:28 pm

   There used to be a way to search the City of Lowell assessors website to learn what property in Lowell was valued at, and how much they paid in Real Estate Taxes. There no longer appears to be a way to do that so I wonder how much the city will be losing annually in Real Estate taxes when UMeehan takes over the hotel and turns it from a commercial property into party of the tax exempt university property!

2. waittilnextyr Says:
   April 23rd, 2009 at 8:55 pm

   ER, according to the SUN web site the current valuation is $7.7M producing $183K in property tax revenue to the City. In addition, there is the local option room tax, which combined with the Marriott Courtyard yields $262K to the City. There is no discussion of Payment in lieu of taxes in the UML release, but a lot of discussion on the complementary benefits that UML provides to the City.

   If the Legislature enables the local option meals tax, the added business generated by the hotel/conference center could compensate for some of the direct tax loss. And to the degree that the hotel is used for outside customers, the room tax should remain.

   What may be the most beneficial aspect of this change could be the future technology business expansion within the City resulting from the partnerships with UML.

   The devil will be in the details.

3. -b Says:
   April 23rd, 2009 at 9:44 pm

   Just one more example of “government gone wild” For a system that’s in crisis they sure don’t act like it.

4. K-R-S Says:
   April 23rd, 2009 at 9:46 pm

   Ellie - the property generated approx. $219K in property tax annually and the report that I was given, generated approx. $55K in room tax revenue to the city. If that’s the case, then that results in approx 3/4 of million in tax revenue decline and seriously hampers our ability as a city to attract venues. So Marty is taking a perfectly taxable commercial property of the rolls and adding it to the non profit rolls.
   No doubt, no cry of outrage for a number of CC. But yet, they’ll cry & whine when it comes to group homes and other non profits (and the tax exempt status they enjoy). Hah!

5. K-R-S Says:
   April 23rd, 2009 at 9:52 pm

   And -bb, seriously! For a university system that cries poverty at every turn..they’re raising student fees, purchasing arenas, “conference centers” (no doubt w/ his private suite, so he doesn’t have to drive back to Andovah’ on a Saturday nite) and potentially build a hotel on property that he wants for practically nothing…Huh.. can you say.. STIMULUS BABY! I am disgusted..purely and simply disgusted. This is almost enough to turn me into a Republican.

6. reader Says:
   April 23rd, 2009 at 10:05 pm

   Read the report!

7. Lowell Resident Says:
   April 23rd, 2009 at 10:06 pm

   if Marty’s behind it must be bad!!!!

8. reader Says:
   April 23rd, 2009 at 10:12 pm

   Read the FULL report!

9. Kim Says:
   April 23rd, 2009 at 10:18 pm

   The Flagmen deal that was promised to a “friend” that owned a flag detail company, the whole Tsongas for green energy… her campaign finance person was none other then a power plant developer, and Mr I am Marty Meehan and I want to own the city. I am sick of it! Republicans give me a call!

10. Bob Forrant Says:
    April 24th, 2009 at 6:41 am

    This only works if it is done well. If students living d’town are introduced right away to restaurants and stores and can use their meal plan cards to eat at local restaurants this will help return some of the other ‘lost revenues’. And, if local bakeries and other food providers are also invited in to serve their food to students living in the space and as well guests who stay in the hotel, then this is a plus because it introduces a whole new group of people to the terrrific ethinc foods the city offers. On the other hand, if the bland, corporate Aramark gets all of the food business in the inn/conference center I would say this is not a very good move at all. The center city committee, the Lowell Plan and others should be pushing this very, very hard. Having students eat d’town has been discussed for five years - I know because I have been pushing it! It is time, if this is going to happen, to have UML publicly commit to this and start th eprocess of wkring with local food vendors, restaurants, and area dairies for milk, ice cream, pasteries, breads, fresh veggies, etc. Nothing less should be acceptable. Added to this, the university should put classrooms in the space too and offer Saturday and evening lectures, films, etc. for downtown residents to attend so as to make firm links with the neighbors. And, UML should publicy commit to having local artists decorate every single common space in the building and having revolving shows from local artists there too.

    In addition, the idea of holding conferences downtown only works when UML makes a particularly serious effort to pushing faculty to actually come downtown. There has always been a reluctance on the part of faculty to do so. So, simply saying conferences will be held downtown is not good enough - many faculty and staff too will actually need to be driven down to the Doubletree so they can be sure to find it!

    As discussions move ahead, we should all watch carefully to see what is promised and what is delivered. This move may well provide a very important economic lifeline to a number of locally owned businesses in the downtown - but only if their is a serious commitment to making the links required and only if residents are inviolved in the process every step of the way so that UML’s feet are held to the fire.

11. BPC Says:
    April 24th, 2009 at 8:21 am

    Disaster. The hotel has a hard enough time filling rooms as it is, what person would want to stay in a hotel that is also a college dorm? As for the students eating and shopping downtown, I think that is wishful thinking as well. Most college students don’t have tons of disposable income to spend on eating out and shopping.

    The state financial situation is not good, and may get much worse, so many of the proposed plans may end up being scaled back or canceled. Lowell taxpayers could end up losing tax money from the hotel, and seeing their state taxes increased to pay for the improvements, great deal for us.

12. Lowell resident Says:
    April 24th, 2009 at 9:29 am

    BPC, there are plenty of hotels in Boston that also double as dorms for overflow students. UML students were just using a hotel in Nashua for this past school year. If the student floors are clearly set aside from the general population, then it shouldn’t be a major issue at all. Its not like they are converting the hotel rooms into dorm rooms.

    I just think there’s a lot of Marty hating going on here. We don’t know yet what the payments in lieu of taxes are so to say that the city will lose all of the property tax revenue is very disingenuous. The article already says that the rooms taxes will still be paid. Room taxes aren’t being paid in empty rooms by the way.

    as for the crying poor, I see this as the university trying to grow and possibly be less dependent on state tax revenue in the future by branching out.

    At least the University will use the hotel and try to promote events there, bring conferences, etc. to the city. I think its worth a shot. Nothing is guaranteed, but it seems like most people here would rather keep it a mostly empty hotel and then turn around and complain that nobody goes downtown.

13. Lynne Says:
    April 24th, 2009 at 9:44 am

    What I want to know is, if this gets purchased by UML and we practically give away the land next to the Tsongas which would be another place to put a (better, more usable) hotel, what’s left to the city? We lose revenue from the Doubletree and can’t develop the land next to the Tsongas to boot. Lovely.

    I have several points of view here. I agree this only works (for some things) IF done well. It COULD be good for the city. On the other hand, the whole “rooms available to the public during nonschool months” is bull. BPC is right, no one will want to stay in a room that is a college dorm. Even an upperclassman one. Dorms get worn, trashed, and used. They also are NOT decorated nicely, but cheaply, with drapes and such that are mundanely colored at best (easier to keep clean). Hotels that attract guests are nicely decorated and require more maintenance to keep them attractive. UML is going to pay extra do this? Right.

    Lastly, there IS a housing problem at UML, and housing students in the Nashua hotel IS horrid. Also very expensive. My guess is purchasing this is actually better long term for the budget than housing kids at real hotels at hotel prices. So people complaining about UML being budget conscious then proposing this ought to consider that. My guess this is cheaper than building a new dorm OR housing kids in hotels outside of town (why not house them at the Doubletree instead, with all the vacancies??) Is this the best solution? I don’t think so. Partly because there’s really NO link from ANY of the campuses to that area, so, what, UML should spread out MORE and have to deal with MORE busing?? Also, traffic in that area is really great for sending buses around. Right.

14. MOONLIGHT Says:
    April 24th, 2009 at 9:45 am

    I can only imagine,that the CVB, and lowell memorial
    auditorium cannot bne two happy with this swindle by meehan
    when will the city councillors find the extra revenue to offset
    the roon taxes we will lose. i can remember all the effort that
    meehans hero paul tsongas put into the venture for the hotel.
    what a shame.

15. Lowell resident Says:
    April 24th, 2009 at 10:26 am

    I keep hearing that the land next to the arena is being given away when its actually being sold for market value minus cleanup costs. The arena is being transfered for no money, but the town is getting the $800,000 for the land, which would need $2.1 million in cleanup costs before it was useable. I’m sure that they could have gotten more for it eventually, but this was part of Marty’s deal to take the arena off their hands and improve the arena.

    Have you seen some of the new BU dorms? they’re nicer than a lot of hotel rooms. I agree if you use the stereotypical “dorm” image, it won’t attract guests. Why can’t it be students are going to the hotel instead of guests going to a dorm? I think that students will be the ones that have to adjust because it won’t be the same kind of communal bonding of a typical dorm setting, but it would have some extra amenities that dorms don’t have. For instance I don’t think it will be a fun place for the party crowd, because the university isn’t stupid.

    If you read Dick Howe’s comment on his blog, you can see that there were counting on Wang’s “students” of a sense to fill those rooms initially. So I mean its not that far out there. Better to use the space than let it sit empty.

    And its not that far from North Campus. Its definitely walkable. Buses will probably be needed, but city buses already go there.

16. Bob Forrant Says:
    April 24th, 2009 at 10:37 am

    There is also a housing problem in Lowell and if more and more students take up apartments in the city thi swill make things worse for everyone else. We can not have it both ways folks. We can not say we want a vibrant downtown and then get upset when the university thinks aboout mooving some of its activities into the city. Pasrt of vibrant equals young people out and about in the city. As for money to spend on food - dorm students purchase an expensive meal plan. Letting them use some of this in downtown restaurants is a huge plus for the city as would a commitment be to purchase milk , ice cream etc from Richardson’s and Shaw’s local daries and breads and pasteries from the city numerous excellent bakeries. Again, we ought to want the university to be a much, much stronger presence in the downtown. The Doubletree is not exactly overbooked most of the year anyway so this will not have such a huge impact on folks traveling to the city and staying at the Doubletree and yes it will create a breath of fresh, young air all around Merrimack, Market, Central etc. and spillover into other parts of the city too. The trick is to do it right - but how can this be anything but a positive if it is done properly?

17. Mr. Lynne Says:
    April 24th, 2009 at 11:34 am

    “I just think there’s a lot of Marty hating going on here. ”

    I don’t think being suspicious of Marty in certain circumstances is unwarranted, particularly where his UML resume ambitions conflict with City interests - this has been covered before. That being said, it’s entirely predictable that such suspicion would leak into UML activities with his fingerprints on them. This could be a great project for all I know, but understanding the context can inform one on how to scrutinize it. Unfortunately, Mehan has become part of the context here, and while it is possible that it may not have any bearing on the relative worth on the project, ignoring context isn’t what you want to do when looking at this.

18. waittilnextyr Says:
    April 24th, 2009 at 11:40 am

    I don’t think rejecting this outright is wise - it may be more of a case of “cutting off your nose to spite your face” for those that think it must be bad because Meehan has proposed it.

19. Bob Forrant Says:
    April 24th, 2009 at 12:20 pm

    My identity here is very clear - but to make it clearer still I am a professor at UML - and I. along with others, have been advocating for years that UML needs to be much more closely integrated into the downtown. College and universities across the country are doing this, esp. in urban settings. So while there may be some larger agenda here thta I am missing, this is a good thing for everyone - again asI have said before - if it is done properly. The fact that there were not discussions before this with concerned residents, business owners, city councilors, etc. means that this is off on the wrong foot already and this, in turn, heats up the anti-feelings. Too bad that this might now get sidetracked into town/gown drama that takes away from figuring out how to make it all work. But, I would be willing to bet that if your surveyed the many modestly-priced diners and sandwich shops in the area around the Doubletree they would all welcome this move if in fact students could use their meal plan to eat in such places. Same goes for clothing stores, hair and nail places, cell phone stores, etc. This all should have been discussed and worked out so that along with the announcement the actual spending power of the students could have been realized right away. This reminds me of the efforts, a while back to possibly build a dorm across from the ball park. Here, too, it was ’sprung’ on everyone and went down in flames. Assomeone who lives in Lowell, spends a lot of time downtown and is always bringing students into the city, this can work. But it needs to be rolled out very thoughtfully and not seen as a land grab - which most of the comments thus far seem to infer. UML needed to be a lot more politically savy as they rolled this out than they were -that said - time to get it right everyone.

20. Mr. Lynne Says:
    April 24th, 2009 at 1:20 pm

    I agree totally with Bob and Waittil. I just also don’t find it unreasonable to be suspicious. Suspicion means a need for greater scrutiny, not a gut-check rejection. I’d find it very unreasonable to just gut-check ok this. Both positions would probably be true without Meehan, but probably more so with his fingerprints on it. I therefore don’t find it unreasonable that a certain amount of suspicion is warranted for the reason that Meehan is associated.

21. Eleanor Rigby Says:
    April 24th, 2009 at 1:22 pm

    Bob your first sentence in your first post says it all…”This only works if it is done well.” That pretty much wraps it up.

    Comparing UMeehan with BU is laughable! Students at BU have disposable income and can afford outragous rents in the new dorms next to Agganis Arena. Boston offers students a lot more than a few eateries to keep money flowing out of their pockets.

    UMeehan students don’t have the disposable income by and large and there is nothing close to what is offered in Boston, here in Lowell to keep students downtown and spending money!

    Back to property taxes, So the city loses a quarter million in tax revenue annually. In addition the city will lose any property tax that will be generated by the sale of the lot next to PETA that is potentially going to be purchased privately and developed into hotel/retail/conference center. Figure about the same amount of lost revenue. So Lowell loses a half million a year in tax revenue.

    Good plan.

22. kami Says:
    April 24th, 2009 at 1:23 pm

    I love the idea. I think it will bring more students downtown as long as Marty does it right. He wants to link the two so I think he’ll do all he can to make it work. At the UMass Amherst Conference center the students run it and do all of the culinary work as well. And its really pretty good. It will be an awesome training center for hotel managment and food preparation. If training is run during college semester breaks and summer breaks they can use the classrooms at Middlesex as the training center. Perfect match. I’m looking forward to it. It’s far better than the current 30% occupancy rate the hotel is enjoying. Penny wise and pound foolish. Sure we’ll lose tax revenue in the short term (unless at PILOT can be formulated). But in the long run the benefit outweighs the short term loss.

23. Lynne Says:
    April 24th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    As I said, I had mixed feelings about it. The Doubletree is unbooked, underused, and needs serious work. It’s not a great venue for either visitors or conferences.

    And UML *does* need a better solution than hotel rooms in Nashua (though, again, why they haven’t been renting those empty rooms closer to home is a mystery).

    I am *not* knee jerk anti UML hotel buying. I *do* think that if this goes off the tax rolls (as pathetic as that is with regards to room vacancies), and we *also* give up the opportunity to have private development for the other plot of land, one of the few left in Lowell near downtown, we’re absolute fools.

    I also do not think that you can possibly compare BU dorms to public U dorms. BU is a private collage with cash to burn. I went to a public U and I know that the last thing they want to spend money on is something the students are going to quickly use up or trash. That includes upholstery and curtains and dorm furniture. That part of the proposal is a pipe dream IMHO.

24. Lowell resident Says:
    April 24th, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    I just offered the BU example in contrast to this idea that dorm rooms have to be simple and unappealing. I don’t see any reason why the hotel would have to be decorated cheaply because some students are living there. The extravagant dorms at the Hancock Student Village bear that out. I just think this idea that because students are living there its going to be unappealing, why is it any less appealing than having families with yelling and screaming kids at the hotel? I mean the double tree is nice but its not the ritz carlton, and it wouldnt be no matter who owns the building.

    Also my guess is most students at BU probably have less disposable income because they will be in debt for the rest of their lives. But thats neither here nor there. Although they have to have some money to be able to afford StuVi, thats true, I was just saying the dorms don’t have to look bad because they’re dorms.

    It sounds like a vicious circle. People don’t go downtown because there’s nothing in downtown to attract people. Businesses don’t succeed downtown because there aren’t enough people to go there.

    So maybe putting some students downtown is one way to fix the cycle.

    Property taxes are an issue, so let’s see how its addressed instead of assuming the worst.

    But do Marty’s ambitions to pad his resume really conflict with the city? really? I mean its possible if you look at in a negative way and assume the worst will happen. But if he succeeds in raising the profile of the university, isn’t that better for the city? Isn’t having a successful arena being owned by the University better than an arena owned by the city bleeding money every year? Isn’t a successful University-owned hotel and conference center better than a 70% empty privately owned hotel? I mean sure if it doesn’t work, then it hurts, but I don’t think this is all so Marty can go to the US Senate voters and say “I tried.” UML really has to succeed for Marty to succeed. If the University is successful in these projects, its a plus for the city as a whole. At least thats how I look at it.

25. Lynne Says:
    April 24th, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    Why have it less appealing? Because that costs more money, that’s why, and most public U’s don’t spend money on that stuff. Because getting decent digs costs more than serviceable ones, and you need serviceable because they are beaten all to hell. In other words, sure, maybe the hotel buyout will be good for both UML and the city, but let’s be realistic here about the public’s use of those same rooms.

    And it’s Marty’s backroom dealings and other such shenanigans that I hate, by the way. It’s not the way business should be conducted especially in the public sphere.

    (And raising the U’s profile with a hockey team is a poor way to do it IMHO, while cutting some of the great programs UML IS known for.)

    If the hotel buyout works, great. But we can’t pretend it’s something that it’s not.

26. James Says:
    April 24th, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    If the options were to rent hotel space from another entity, or own the hotel and maintain the same appearances so as to still attract tourists/conventioneers/etc. the second option is still the same. Yes if it was just for student housing, it would probably be given the standard drab amentities. But since thats not the plan here who is to say thats how they will do it? We’re literally discussing the curtains at this point. I know when BU students were living at the Radisson in Cambridge, they had their own floors, separate from the regular guests. The rooms otherwise were identical. Did the Radisson have problems renting those rooms out the following year?

    There is a lot of small minded talk about what a public university should and shouldn’t be that i would have expected to be from a republican small government crowd. This seems to be a big plan with educational components in addition to the housing and events component.

    Is Marty sacrificing the basics for the glory of these bigger projects? I haven’t seen it. Sure there are some cuts being made in everything publicly funded right now, but does that mean that the school should just settle for stagnation? They are making big plans at a time when private business is doing nothing because of the economy. I think its a good thing. Again, would you prefer an empty hotel and an arena with a failing business plan? Thats what we have now. Is the stain of Marty Meehan using the same political backchannels that have been in place for years and years such a stain that we’d rather the university and city do nothing at all just to spite him?

    I know the non-alumns, non-lifelong ULowell supporters who grew up in the area don’t seem to care about the hockey program, but downgrade it and you lose a ton of alumni support. There are people still mad they changed the name from “Chiefs.” How much in alumni donations would be lost if the team was taken away by the UMass trustees? But the hockey/arena is a totally different discussion, unless the only theme is the distrust of Marty Meehan.

27. Eleanor Rigby Says:
    April 24th, 2009 at 6:16 pm

    To make up for the property tax loss of the Doubletree and the hotel developers say they want on Meehan’s other property near PETA (assuming the assessment is identical) how many new residential homes would have to be built and sold in Lowell?

    Given that Lowell’s foreclosure rate is pretty impressive and there isn’t much land for new subdivisions, and based on the residential tax rate of $11.68 versus the commercial tax rate of $23.76 and completely discounting a rooms and meals tax revenue that would go to the city since it does not exisit. How many residential homes would it take to make up $356,400?

    Also if you want to make it more interesting factor in services like police, fire and school for those residential homes vs users of a hotel that are in and out and that don’t use those services.

    How many new homes are we talking about to break even for the loss of two pieces of property on the tax roll?

28. -b Says:
    April 25th, 2009 at 9:52 am

    The report is a puff piece.

    The only solid argument mentioned in the report is how it helps address the dire housing situation. The rest of the report is filled with hopeful thinking. The report makes it sound like they are building a new facility - the facility is already there.

    In my view if the school didn’t have the housing, they shouldn’t have admitted the students in the first place. Now UML has a real mess on their hands, and this $15M purchase is the cheap fix.

    It just kills me to see a government entity making a move like this when the revenue situation is so bleak. It just wreaks of irresponsibility. The right thing to do in my mind would be to lower the admittance numbers to something that matches housing it’s students in Lowell, not Nashua.

    But instead the plan will be to drop the $15M, which I’m sure won’t be the final number, increase student fees, and take another piece of property off the tax rolls.

    Situations like this are the reason there’s talk of a 7% sales tax down at the State house.

29. K-R-S Says:
    April 25th, 2009 at 1:37 pm

    Thanks -b, exactly what I was thinking.

30. Shalloteer Says:
    April 25th, 2009 at 7:29 pm

    Nice move Mr. Meehan. You have my blessing.

    Did anyone notice the ‘article’ in the sun stating that Meehan had a 90 minute meeting with the editorial staff? Ugh!

31. scallioner Says:
    April 26th, 2009 at 12:22 am

    Can’t wait to get student life downtown.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9KR5KHwoJM

    Bet the condo sales will really pick up. Does anyone in the City really think through these things?

32. -b Says:
    April 26th, 2009 at 3:29 pm

    I’m sure the owners of the Dubliner and the Blue Shamrock are all smiles about this one.

    Great clip.

33. Student Says:
    April 26th, 2009 at 8:39 pm

    The idea of using our Meal Cards at local restaurants sounds wonderful in the beginning - BUT - we are very limited in what we can spend. The food at school is so inexpensive….using the card at a local restaurant will cost 3 or 4 times what a meal on campus costs - unless the downtown eataries are willing give us a 75% discount our meal plan will be used up the first month!

34. K-R-S Says:
    April 26th, 2009 at 10:34 pm

    to expand on Students comment…Have the downtown businesses already been brought on brd?.. Campus meals are cheap, cheap, cheap and likely students will gravitate to the same eateries that are cheap that they had previously (not in downtown) utilized. Fio’s…u better open up a downotwn eatery!..just an observation, based on having been a student living both on campus and off at UML.

35. jdayne Says:
    April 27th, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    As I said at Richard Howe’s blog,I’m not torn on this one. The existing hotel is an embarrassment–or at least was when friends from NYC visited ~1 year ago. I find it odd that I can love living in a City where I cannot recommend friends come to visit. I’ve been pushing for a boutique hotel downtown that could be a learning center for hospitality students, but the Doubletree is here, is generally empty, could accommodate students and yes, could be a real addition as a college “inn” and conference center.

    College and university towns/cities generally fare far, far better during downturns than equivalent sized towns without an institution of higher ed even with the greatly disproportionate dedication of real estate to a tax exempt institution. The kicker is that the college/university has to be, itself, a magnet/robust institution. If it is, then despite all the town/gown carping and intrigue, each will benefit. And healthy colleges and universities bring adult academics into town to work, live and play. They bring parents of foreign students into town for overnight stays. They bring prospective students and parents to town. They create an adult learning environment. Cambridge, Somerville, Ann Arbor, Northhampton . . . all greatly transformed by great colleges/universities. Let’s have Lowell join that roster.

    The devil is in the details, and I,too, hope that residents and City officials and university folks all endeavor to sort out the right details but waving good-bye to the failing, sad Doubletree and welcoming some life and forward looking activity–not a problem for me.

36. Turtledove Says:
    April 28th, 2009 at 11:21 am

    After reading the SUN editorial I wonder what the final loss of parking revenue will be when this sale is complete? Also, what happens to all of the passholders for the Lower Locks garage? There is no space at Market or John St during the day now. Perhaps you work on Merrimack St…will you want to walk from the Early garage? What about students and faculty of MCC? What about residents on Warren and Central Streets?

37. Dave Cole Says:
    April 29th, 2009 at 2:54 am

    Alls I know is my daugher LUVS the Nashua Radisson Castle they’ve been at for 2 semesters - I hope the downtown Lowell area is as safe as what she’s been at up there. Wish she was goin back!

38. Eleanor Rigby Says:
    April 29th, 2009 at 11:59 am

    Regarding the parking issue, the hotel does not own the lower locks garage does it? So assuming the hotel does not own the garage then they are a tenant just like everyone else. If they sell to the university then the city can and should renegotiate the parking lease with UMeehan to make sure the public isn’t locked out.

    As for the loss of property tax income, just to deal in round numbers, to make up for a $300,000 loss in property taxes Lowell would have to create 107 new single family homes that would be taxed at $2800 each to make up for the loss.

    Anyone see that happening in the near future?

    Dave Cole…Since you have direct knowledge of this, about how much money does your daughter spend in Nashua outside of the hotel and where does that spending happen? That would give us a benchmark of sorts to see if the pie in the sky predictions of an economic boom to Lowell is even in the same solar system.

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