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Left In Lowell » Blog Archive » Voter Suppression Comes Home

Left In Lowell

Member of the reality-based community of progressive (not anonymous) Massachusetts blogs

2013 Candidate Questionnaire Responses!

May 3, 2013

Voter Suppression Comes Home

by at 1:00 pm.

This motion will get fast tracked to subcommittee, where it will wallow.

This graph compares total voter turnout to C. Elliott’s support, for the last 6 City elections. What would happen, if this November the turnout went up to 12,000?

Elliott’s Finish: 2001 - 6th, 2003 - 8th, 2005 - 4th (Tie), 2007 - 7th, 2009 - 9th, 2011 - 2nd

Is it a legitimate concern to question, if C.Elliott is acting out of an instinct of self-preservation?

61 Responses to “Voter Suppression Comes Home”

  1. Christopher Says:

    I doubt very highly that a city can do this without the approval of the state, either the Secretary who I believe opposes this, or an act of the legislature through a general law providing for it or via a home rule petition.

  2. joe from Lowell Says:

    The role that certain new voters had in electing two of his biggest detractors has nothing to do with this.


  3. Huh Says:

    Once again playing the politics of fear!!!

  4. Mr. Lynne Says:


  5. Mimi Says:

    Did I miss something? Has a candidate, poll worker, voter, City official filed a complaint about voting irregularities?

    And if CC Elliott says he received a phone call or an e-mail and does not identify that individual, well I am going to dismiss that has low-level politics.

  6. Publius Says:

    Before we criticize the motion, shouldn’t we at least see what the proposal is? There could be merit in the motion.

  7. Jack Says:

    There are likely two realms of possibility for the motion.
    1) This isn’t about the far right movement to squash participation of what Mitt Romney labelled the “47%.” But, rather, this is an effort to sneak into the improvements going on at the City’s Election’s Office. If this is the case, shame on Elliott for not being direct in his query. We all know that Elliott seeks to expose every flaw in City Hall, so that he can undermine the public confidence in Plan E Gov’t. Especially, when this Admin is in place.


    2)Elliott is simply fear mongering, for election benefit, to the parochial shut ins that consume Campi Editorials in heaping loads.

    Then why is there a public perception that there’s a problem?

    I think there are a lot of political leaders who have perpetuated this myth for partisan purposes, and when you look at it superficially it’s a believable argument. But they tend to conflate the different types of fraud that could occur in the election system and sort of mix together voter registration fraud, and voter absentee fraud, and other types of issues, and stir it all up in a pot, and come up with voter identification requirements that would do nothing to address the relatively minor problems that we have in the system.

    What’s going on with voter ID requirements?

    We have seen an incredible wave of legislation since the 2010 elections, when Republicans took over a number of state legislatures. A number of states have passed ID legislation in the past year and a half or so. And now I think you’re starting to see a backlash, particularly in the courts, where judges are looking at the evidence and saying, this is discriminatory, this is voter suppression, and there’s no need for it.

    Ultimately, what happens is that gov’t workers end up exacerbating and already unnecessary law. Here is an example of a confused process in Wisconsin.

  8. Eleanor Rigby Says:

    ABC did a story on voter fraud last fall:

  9. Publius Says:

    It was shown in New Hampshire, last year, that someone would be able to votein the place of a person who is dead but still on the voting rolls. That is more than enough for me to be willing to take a look at a voter id proposal.

  10. Jack Says:

    Ah yes, Publius.
    Project Veritas. The infamous undercover camera man, known better for his ‘fake pimp busting ACORN’ videos.

    The footage includes shots taken at several New Hampshire polling sites, including some in Nashua, on Jan. 10 during which phony voters went undercover to ask for ballots for recently deceased people in those wards.

    In one instance a poll worker in a Manchester ward realized the undercover imposter was not who he said he was because she knew the dead person in question. That incident was reported in the Boston Herald.

    Nashua City Clerk Paul Bergeron is outraged, and noted that in addition to the legal ramifications, what these filmmakers did in that instance is morally and ethically wrong.

    “Her husband just died 10 days ago,” said Bergeron, referring to an interview in today’s Boston Herald with Rachel Groux of Manchester, widow of Roger Groux, who died December 31.

    I get it! Let’s make it cumbersome for several thousand Lowellians to participate in Democracy because a handful of jokers MAY opt to pull a stunt that could land them in the clink.

    This is a solution in search of a problem. It is a nefarious ruse designed to discourage participation in elections. A cadre of agitating ‘big government Republicans’ want to insert more gov’t red tape & bureaucracy between a voter and their solemn right to vote. Why?

    I know this scam. When you can’t win, join ‘em. When you won’t join ‘em, CHEAT!

    The City Council will see this bogus motion for what it is.

  11. joe from Lowell Says:

    “It is possible” for this thing that no one can show has ever happened to happen, so therefore, we must implement a program that has been definitively shown to disenfranchise thousands of people.

  12. Tax Payer Says:

    Just show an id whats the big deal! I could have voted 20 times for the people on my street who didn’t show up to vote yet.

  13. JohnW Says:

    Don’t think that doesnt happen. It’s prevalent, people go from precinct to precinct voting on other peoples names (it’s been happening for years).

    Why don’t underatnd is how this motion would suppress voting. One ID - One Vote. Seems logical.

  14. Jack Says:

    Really, JohnW. “Some people say … ?”

    So, if we set up camera at the polling places, we can see the same few people voting several times in different locations?

    Let’s run a sting.

    And your ‘understanding’ is not a requirement. Do you understand ‘y=m(x)+b’? It is true whether you understand or not.

    House Majority Leader Mike Turzai (R-Allegheny) suggested that the House’s end game in passing the Voter ID law was to benefit the GOP politically.

    “We are focused on making sure that we meet our obligations that we’ve talked about for years,” said Turzai in a speech to committee members Saturday. He mentioned the law among a laundry list of accomplishments made by the GOP-run legislature.

    “Pro-Second Amendment? The Castle Doctrine, it’s done. First pro-life legislation - abortion facility regulations - in 22 years, done. Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done.

  15. JohnW Says:


    No doubt you’ll see this going on if you run a sting. It’s not “what some people say” it’s reality. My guess is that this is a much bigger problem than people realize (in Lowell anyway) & we’re not that big - every vote carries some significant weight here.

    It would take some effort to check video from every precinct however, but it’s a fine idea. People would shit if they saw how many voters are doing this.

  16. Jack Says:

    Odd. I have not heard one single anecdote from poll workers or poll watchers about anyone ever coming in that seemed ’shady’ or asked to vote for someone that the poll worker knew. You’d think that such subterfuge would, from time to time, raise an eye brow.

    Unless it is a giant conspiracy and everyone is covering up? I’m not that paranoid.

    I am inclined to doubt these rumors, as there is no there there, other than noxious vapor. That said, I’ll follow up.

  17. JohnW Says:

    Honestly, I’ve never heard anything about it publicly. The reason being that these people don’t look shady or suspicious, they look like regular voters, exept they’re voting for someone else.

    I’ll hold signs at several locations and often head to different precincts with some of my relatives that struggle reading the referendums, and sure enough, I see the same people coming out of voting booths by themselves. How else can you explian that other than they’re voting under someone else’s name?

    Conspiracy has nothing to do with it, how could the poll workers know? HMM, maybe if they had show an ID.

  18. Jack Says:

    First, I don’t believe this. If you used your full name and were better known to this forum, your story would be more credible.

    But, for sake of useless blogging, 5 people vote 10 times in one day? That changes an election, how? Sure, in 2011 it could, if all the stars aligned. But, not in any of the previous 5 elections.

    The potential negative will effect hundreds, if not thousands of Lowellians. Many Senior citizens will be put out. Is C.Elliott trying to cut into Rita’s electoral dominance by chopping at the over 80 vote?

  19. Kim Says:

    Maybe Jack?

    “About 18% of U.S. citizens 65 and older lack a current, government-issued photo ID, versus 11% of the population overall, according to New York University’s Brennan Center for Justice.”

    Read more at http://www.kiplinger.com/article/retirement/T043-C000-S001-new-voter-id-laws-could-daunt-seniors.html#Sr4ldiHTOdtOGk1F.99

  20. JohnW Says:

    It doesn’t have to affect anyone. You ask everyone at the polls this year if they need a voter ID, & then you mail them out; & thats it, done. 2015, everyone has an ID.

  21. JohnW Says:

    & Thousands?? Wasn’t there less than 10k voters total? Your lucky if it’s 100.

  22. Jack Says:

    There are 54,000+ registered voters. Are you suggesting this infringement on our rights is ONLY for the City elections? Why bother?

    There is no need to do this. This is infringing without any reasonable cause.

    Unless there is an undisclosed motivation. Which, there must be, as there is no good reason. Why suppress the votes of the elderly, JohnW?

  23. Mr. Lynne Says:

    “…My guess is that this is a much bigger problem than people realize (in Lowell anyway)”

    Before we go spending our money on solving this problem, would it be too much to ask for some evidence that this is a problem instead a guess?

    “The reason being that these people don’t look shady or suspicious, they look like regular voters, exept they’re voting for someone else.”

    ‘These people’? You’ve been able to identify them? Even though ‘they don’t look shady or suspicious’? Can we establish that these voter fraud people that are indistinguishable from real voters actually exist first?

    I don’t want to waste taxpayer money on phantoms. I’m a liberal. I want my government because I want it to solve real world problems. I’d like some evidence that this is a real world problem. Moreover I’d like to further see that even if it exists that it’s worth spending the your’s and my money on.

  24. Tax Payer Says:

    How do we know if it goes becuase it has never been investigated. Secondly most of the poll workers who are there dont care and are tired by 2o’clock. I have worked them before many times. You go up tell them ” 10 Txpayer ST.” and they scrool through the book. All one has to is look at the names that are no check off and go thats me no proof whats so ever. In another hour change clothes wear a hat and come back and goes yep thats me.

  25. Paul@01852 Says:

    Tax Payer you sound like an expert at this–how many times did you say you’ve performed this trick? How many times has *ANYONE YOU KNOW* performed this trick?

  26. Jack Says:

    Tax Payer,
    I’m not prepared to impede Democracy because “some people say …” politics. There is no proof of fraud to the degree that warrants such intrusion. It’s unfortunate that you don’t like our system. Maybe, you feel that we should invest more taxpayer dollars into creating a air tight voting system, from top to bottom? Maybe, you just want to burden shift the cost to the individuals that are voting?

    The role of the gov’t, on election day, is to facilitate my right to vote. As the gov’t is borne from the choices we collectively make, there is an inherent flaw in the logic of allowing the gov’t to play favorites.

    My inner Libertarian despises ‘big Government Republicanism.’ The burden on Election Day is on the Gov’t. Not the Citizen.

    If a cop can look you up in their car, when the have you pulled over; then a poll worker should be able to look you up when you go to vote.

    Put the burden on the Gov’t! #don’tpunchdown

  27. Jack Says:

    Based on Paul’s question, we should consider how the game COULD be rigged. (Note: Not individual voters pretending to be another in this scenario. ID to vote would not have inhibited this matter.)

    From the Blog of Record:
    “DURING THE September 2010 state primary in Lowell, Election Commission member Denis Teague spotted a temporary poll worker handling ballots in a way that he thought was improper.

    Teague reported what he saw to Solicitor Christine O’Connor. O’Connor investigated, and told the person and her superior, Gail Cenik, that the poll worker is “banned” from City Hall and will never work a city election again.

    O’Connor was understandably shocked late last month when she learned that person was back in City Hall, in the Election Commission vault in the basement of City Hall. That person is Anne Sepe, the politically connected former Election Commission member (1998-2004). ”

  28. Tax Payer Says:

    Its easy just show a a valid id thats all I’m asking nothing more nothing less.

  29. Jack Says:


    It’s “easy” for me to climb stairs, yet there are a bunch of laws that mandate taxpayer money being spent to make our public spaces being more accessible. Even private property owners, commercial mostly, are required to comply.

    It is “easy” for Tom Brady to throw a football.

    Getting “valid id” may be “easy” for most. In this nation, per our Constitution, we guard against the few being run roughshod over by the most.

  30. Tax Payer Says:

    Yeah Jack it’s easy can’t go through life without an id!

  31. Shawn Says:

    “In this nation, per our Constitution, we guard against the few being run roughshod over by the most. ” — a great argument against useless gun control. thanks.

    As to voter id, just google “ohio voter fraud” and see the lists of articles and people found guilty. And that’s because in that state somebody actually looked.

    In our state, I guess its much more important not to look.. who knows what you may find.

    A simple id rule.. even a random sampling.. would help deter the problem.. real or imagined.

    But of course, if you’re looking for illegal voters to flood the registered voters list, like illegal aliens, foreign students on (or beyond) visas, people voting in multiple residences… then you would fight any type of controls too.

    Its always funny to see how the libs will fight for regulation of everything, except when it may reduce illegal voting.

  32. Tax Payer Says:


  33. Jack Says:

    Deter a non-problem? Brilliant!

    I realize you have a fetish for “grassy knoll politics,” but could you explain to me how the AARP is in league with this ‘lib conspiracy?’

    Having a driver’s license or photo identification card is commonplace for most Americans, but about 11 percent of adult citizens — more than 21 million people — lack a valid, government-issued photo ID, according to a study by the Brennan Center for Justice at the New York University School of Law.

    Increasingly, this puts their right to vote at risk. A year ago, only Georgia and Indiana required photo ID cards to vote. Since then, Kansas and Tennessee have joined the list, and similar laws in an additional five states have not yet been implemented.

    The U.S. Justice Department blocked a law in Texas as a violation of the 1965 Voting Rights Act and a federal court upheld the move, though the state says it plans to appeal; the justice department also put laws in Mississippi and South Carolina on hold as potential violations of the Voting Rights Act; Pennsylvania’s law won’t be implemented this year, pending possible appeal to the state supreme court; and Wisconsin’s law was declared unconstitutional in March 2012 — a decision the state says it plans to appeal. In seven more states with photo ID laws, voters who are unable to show a photo ID are still allowed to vote if they can meet certain other criteria.

    “What’s new is the no-photo-no-vote” laws, said Jennie Bowser, a senior fellow specializing in elections at the Denver-based National Conference of State Legislatures. “The 2010 elections’ big shift toward Republican control of state legislatures was certainly a piece of that.”

    Older voters most affected

    The trend alarms voting advocates like Lawrence Norden, acting director of the Brennan Center’s Democracy Program, who said photo ID laws hit older people, the poor, African Americans and students the hardest. “This is the first time in decades that we have seen a reversal in what has been a steady expansion of voting rights in the United States,” Norden said. “There’s no question that citizens over 65 will be particularly impacted. The older you get, the more likely you won’t have an ID.”

    Nearly one in five citizens over 65 — about 8 million — lacks a current, government-issued photo ID, a 2006 Brennan Center study found. Most people prove their eligibility to vote with a driver’s license, but people over 65 often give up their license and don’t replace it with the state-issued ID that some states offer non-driving residents. People over 65 also are more likely to lack birth certificates because they were born before recording births was standard procedure.

    Strict new photo ID laws could make voting this year more difficult for millions of voters, if the new laws stand, according to the Brennan Center.

    In the states with strict photo ID voting laws, voters who show up without photo IDs generally are allowed to vote a provisional ballot that is counted only if the voter brings a photo ID to a government elections office within a few days, and may not be counted at all unless the election is close.

  34. Jack Says:

    PS. Lets go to biometrics. Scan registered voters thumb for a print. Then have scanners to verify that the voter is who they say they are. Most of us won’t lose our thumbs before an election. Although, some carpenters will scream ‘voter suppression.’

    Should we go to blue dye, like in Iraq/Afghanistan?

  35. Tax Payer Says:

    Jack how do people cash checks over 65. Not having an id in this day in age makes you an idiot and prob dont have the intelligence to vote. Everyone has some sort of ID Jack. Get a grip.

  36. Jack Says:

    Cashing a check is a function of commerce, not civics. That requirement comes from the bank. Free market forces will determine, if such a stipulation is prudent. Next?

  37. shawn Says:

    Give it up TP, he’ll dig out a left wing argument off of one of millions of crazy websites.

    How about paying your tax bill with a check? Using a credit card at Wendys for the senior special?

    If someone wants an id, they can get one.. often online from the RMV now. Don’t even have to go down there if you previously had a license.

    Its all about bolstering the democrat vote with illegal voters. Everyone knows it.

    Chicago made it famous, the main stream media makes it possible.

  38. Tax Payer Says:

    Do you really think you are that intelligent? laughable

  39. Jack Says:

    @Lurkers Shawn makes my case for me. Self parody is the best. ‘The Librul Media.’Do they make their plans out in Area 51?

    @TP More intelligent than who? Who are you, anyways? You’re coming here to LiL, why? You are laughing at me from a closet. I care, how?

  40. Shawn Says:

    Lurkers? I thought the reason you blogged was to have people listen to you and respond.

    Just because I don’t respond to every thought you produce, does that invalidate my input? I’m sorry, I didn’t realize that my input was required on everything for me to provide input to any.

    I use my name, I am not anonymous. I thought you would value some input.

    My mistake.

    I guess if I don’t agree with you, you must play the straw man attack.

    That’s your choice. I guess I made my point that there are opposing opinions, TP is not alone.

    I’ll go back to “lurking”

  41. Jack Says:

    I was talking to all lurkers and scoffing you. So, I won’t point out you inane squeals of victimhood, as you were scorned. Please enjoy your matyrdom, at my expense.

    Maybe you want to further assert your insight
    Into our insidious liberal schemes.

  42. Tax Payer Says:

    When people became citizens the other day becuase I went to party for one who just became one going tthrough the actual proper channels they had to show an id. Becoming a citizen is a civic duty

  43. Jack Says:

    Odd. My wife has held a Green Card for 23 years. Yet, her sense of civic duty is as fine as anyone’s. If you doubt this, come to the next CNAG meeting and ask any of the CNAG officers.

    PS. She mailed in her application to DHS, two weeks ago. She’s hoping to vote in the coming City election.

  44. joe from Lowell Says:

    Everyone has some sort of ID Jack. Get a grip.

    OK, you know what? We don’t actually have to just check your gut and assume that your feelings are an accurate reflection of reality. There have been actual studies done of this very question.

    “About 18% of U.S. citizens 65 and older lack a current, government-issued photo ID, versus 11% of the population overall, according to New York University’s Brennan Center for Justice.”

    I understand, Ms. Kael, that you don’t know a single person who voted for Richard Nixon. That’s very nice. As it turns out, however, your personal experience within the boundaries in which you live your life does not, in fact, give you any particular insight into the experiences of the public as a whole.

  45. joe from Lowell Says:

    Its all about bolstering the democrat vote with illegal voters. Everyone knows it.

    Oddly enough, the Republican-dominated federal court system managed not to “know it,” and has ruled in case after case that there is no problem to be solved, and that requiring people to show ID to vote imposed a poll tax.

    If someone wants an id, they can get one.. often online from the RMV now.

    By, “now,” you of course mean “since the passage of the Motor Voter Act” twenty years ago. Interesting thing about Motor Voter: Republicans at the time justified their opposition to the bill by claiming that it would make it easier for those skeery, omnipresent illegals to commit voter fraud. Now, exactly the same people point to the RMV as a bastion of integrity that should determine who gets to vote.

  46. Tax Payer Says:

    Hey even illegals can register cars, they go further by regsitering non-commerical vehicles as the their own name as company. ie ur plate is run it says mickey mouse with ur information adress etc. an illegal plate is run and there name ie. mickey mouse in the corporation spot with no identifying license information as a legal person.

  47. Jack Says:

    Because “Mickey Mouse” is a registered voter? *eyes roll*

    I will not impede a citizens right because yahoos think the ‘Libruls are stealing elections by registering illegal aliens.’

    It’s unfortunate the C.Elliott is pandering to yahoos. But, apparently, they have the right to vote. :v|

  48. Tax Payer Says:

    Many Dems are catering for these votes

  49. Jack Says:

    Tax Payer,
    Again with the high jacking. If you want to froth about EBT card abuse, go to the Herald website.

    Dems believe in a social contract that has a social safety net. We don’t believe in ‘dog-eat-dog’ when so few have so much of an advantage. Neither did Teddy Roosevelt, btw. We don’t support fraud and abuse. (Though, historically, there is a crumb trail of graft & patronage.)

    As someone that works in the ‘ground game’ for Dems, I can attest I have never seen any shenanigans of the sort you and Shawn fantasize about. Which leads me to conclude that your assertions are bogus and that your motive is nefarious. That your intent is to suppress the rightful votes of those that you do not think worthy of having a vote equal to yours.

    Work harder to win elections, instead of trying to cheat. Or, come up with better ideas, so your candidates can win elections.

  50. Tax Payer Says:

    I worked elections far more than you and it can be done it has never been investigated thats the truth. your a liberal not democrat

  51. Jack Says:

    My friend Cliff Krieger calls himself a “Classic Liberal.”

    I support a solid, social safety net. As did our Founders!

    The body politic is formed by a voluntary association of individuals: it is a social compact, by which the whole people covenants with each citizen, and each citizen with the whole people, that all shall be governed by certain laws for the common good. It is the duty of the people, therefore, in framing a constitution of government, to provide for an equitable mode of making laws, as well as for an impartial interpretation, and a faithful execution of them; that every man may, at all times, find his security in them.

    I support responsible gun ownership. I support the building of the Keystone Pipeline & developing modern nuclear energy. Ergo, you don’t know me. You see snippets based on what argument I present.

    You can make all sorts of claims from your closet. You are nothing with no credibility, other than the power of your logic and persuasion. As both of those points are weak, you got nuthin’.

  52. Tax Payer Says:

    Jack the point here is from an earlier post that if there can be EBT fraud, there can certainly be voter fraud. We wont and dont know until it is investigated. How would it cost taxypayer’s more money to show an id during elections. If you really want to save money there should be no primary’s like this past one, it was a waste of time and the turnout was more than aweful!

  53. Jack Says:

    There are moneyed interests behind EBT fraud, TP. Every time a card holder goes into a store and buys $50 worth of taboo goods, in exchange for $100 worth of EBT credit, the store owner makes $50, plus the mark up on the loot.

    The reason we don’t fix the problem with “freeloaders” is because of the micro economies around their consumption. Sect. 8 housing? Please, with a straight face, tell me your woes.

    What part of “Don’t Punch Down” is confusing to you?

    PS. Elliott deferred his motion. Why?

  54. joe from Lowell Says:

    Hmmmmmm….would could possibly be the connection between “illegals” and people with EBT cards, in the mind of the conservative who just put them together?

    Height? Taste in music? I know: BMI. It’s body mass index that makes EBT cards and voter fraud the same thing, amirite?

  55. joe from Lowell Says:

    How would it cost taxypayer’s more money to show an id during elections.

    Either you make the voter pay for the ID, imposing a poll tax, or you make the taxpayers pay to provide it to the voter.

  56. Tax Payer Says:

    Omg you need a form of id in this day of age to be a productive member of society. Criminals dont carry ids. If you can get twenty five dollars to get an id give me a break. We give cell phones away for free. So I still dont see how it would cost taxpayers more to show an id. Give me a break with your excuses and its nobody fault attitude I’m a poor victim junk. Im pretty sure 1 outta 10 people who show to vote already have a license or id in their hand.

  57. Jack Says:

    The Constitution according to a disgruntled Tax Payer. “Productive member of Society, eh?” Who sets the bar for that, huh? Scott Brown? During an election? Please, TP, admit it. You are really a big fat liberal troll. A dirty hippie making a mockery of conserva-Demsn right? You just can’t be so full of garbage right wing memes and NOT be a parody. Come clean, this instant!

  58. Tax Payer Says:

    Name a solid member of the community in the publicc setting that does not an id? If someone refuses and does not take the time to get identification in this day age it shows that they lack and wanting to live in purposeful manner and have a good impact on community. Its the called the broken window theory look it up!

  59. Jack Says:

    I’ve heard the Mayor criticized because he rents, as opposed to owning his own home.

    6.Tax Payer Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 3:22 pm e
    Murphy doesn’t even own any property!

    You’re shitting us, right?

    Sorry, TP. You are hereby disqualified from establishing any reference lines on who is ‘bona fide.’

    If you persist, I will quickly jump to examples of ethnic cleansing and genocide.

  60. Mr. Lynne Says:

    “Criminals dont carry ids.”

    Really? I’m becoming impressed with the distance between you and reality. For me this is a good thing though - it lets me see your commentary less as annoying and more as entertaining and farcical.

  61. joe from Lowell Says:

    Omg you need a form of id in this day of age to be a productive member of society.

    Setting aside the typical right-wing elitism: yes, we’re talking mainly about people who are on the fringes of society - socially, economically, physically, chronologically - who don’t have IDs. We’re not talking about your typical middle-class office worker; we’re talking about very poor people, very old people, very rural people.

    The difference between us is that you think it’s ok for such people to be disenfranchised, and liberals don’t.

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